The POF shown here is form the newest batch to be imported. The earlier ones imported last year had fit and finish issues but by all accounts worked as well as their German cousins. Being made in a military factory, I have no doubt that is true. I don't care how ugly or pretty it looks so long as it works. But they apparently listened to the fit and finish complaints because they are now including an inspection certificate in the box numbered to the gun so that might be important to some. I haven't shot it yet (I just got it) but if it doesn't work, you will most assuredly be hearing about it. The obvious place to start is with the box:



Yah!! It's cardboard!! It says that it's imported by NATMIL but apparently that's no longer the case. NATMIL split into two companies and.....well, I'll just quote what's posted at NATMIL's website:

"NATMIL’s shareholders and investors have decided to withdraw the distribution of the manufacturing/OEM/wholesale arm out of NATMIL, thus dividing the company. One will remain NATMIL, which will handle retail sales and some imports under the same management, and the other will now be Federal Armamant LLC(dba FedArm) under new management."

Because of this, the guns were recalled and a FedArm stamp was added to the import mark. We'll see that later. I assume that newer boxes will at least have different script on them if they are not altogether different. Does it really matter?? Only weirdos like me are going to keep the box anyways.

Opening the box reveals the goodies in a heavy duty plastic bag (Yes, I'm keeping that too):



There is a magazine hiding under that upper folded cardboard part if you don't live in a crappy magazine ban state.


Underneath the gun is a plastic sleeve containing the inspection certificate and owners manual. The magazine shown is a POF magazine but it didn't come with my gun because I live in a crappy magazine ban state where I may own and use high capacity magazines but I may not buy them here. I found it at a gunshow in another state. Perfectly legal. stupid liberal feel good laws......



Lets take a closer look at the inspection certificate:



It looks like it was inspected on December 11, 2014 by a dude at Daudsons Armoury in Peshawar Pakistan. I assume that they are the exporter. Notice that most of the items inspected are cosmetic. I believe this to be in response to the aforementioned issues from the earlier batch. I assume that it was inspected for more important things at the factory. Also checked off is which model was inspected. In this case it was the MP5 submachine gun. Wait...what?? SMG??? Crazy Pakistani guys...it's a pistol, NOT a dadburned submachinegun!!! The model not checked off is the "reverse stretch" version. That's nothing more than an MP5 with the shorted MP5K barrel installed. I blocked out part of the serial number. In the upper right of the picture it says "Inspection Note No. MP5 / 110 12 2014". What the "110" means, I have no idea.

Here's the right side of the certificate:



We see that it passed inspection and was confirmed by Mr. Terrible Penmanship at Pakistan Ordnance Factories in Wah Cantt, Pakistan. This certificate is a photocopy. I guess the original is stashed away in Pakistan somewhere for all eternity. I'm keeping this too. I'm keeping everything.


Let's look at the manual:



The sticker on the front is cute. This is just the standard military manual issued with every MP5 but it's now magically a manual for a semi automatic only pistol! Neato magico!

If we open the cover, we see the cover page:




Behind that we see many more pages. I'll just include a few here (mostly ones they're telling you disregard disregard on the cover):



The illustrations are standard ones taken directly from the original German manual written decades ago. Notice that the SMG's pictured have a polymer trigger group but this one has a steel trigger group.

Two different K models and specs for the standard model:



More stuff that you should just disregard:



More stuff that you should just disregard:




This Pakistani manual and the Turkish MKE manual are almost identical in text and illustrations. Again, both are just slightly modified reprints of the original decades old German manual. As an example, here is page 24 of the POF manual:



And here are pages 38 and 39 of the MKE manual (the Turkish manual is smaller and laying on the open Pakistani manual):



If you compare the above two pictures, you will see that the text is almost verbatim, the illustrations are identical and even the figure number (37) is the same. I know most people couldn't care less about such things but I find it interesting.

Here are three manuals:



The center one we have seen already. It's the included Pakistani military manual converted to a civilian one with the addition of a sticker. To the left is the manual from the first batch of MKE's imported in 2009. It is also just a military manual converted to a civilian one by the addition of a sticker telling you to ignore all mention of full auto. The one on the right is from the second batch of MKE's imported in 2010. It's a really crappy thing put together my ATI (the importer). It came in the small cardboard folder shown below:



Notice that is says it's for the "AT-94A2". That is a reference to the 10 shot carbine version that they brought in. It had the magazine well modified so that you couldn't readily insert a 30 round magazine. They also brought two "pistol" versions. One was a semi auto MP5 that had no stock attached and would accept standard magazines. The other was a semi auto MP5K that also had no stock and would accept standard magazines. But it didn't matter which version you bought. All came with the same crappy manual. Opening the binder revealed the "manual" inside:



It was nothing more than a sheet of paper printed on both sides and folded into quarters. Here's one side:



And here's the other:



Did I mention that is was crap? It was. In the next post I'll finally start to talk about stuff that you may actually find interesting.

 

Sweet! Can't wait to see the rest of this in the up coming posts. I'm pretty confident I'm going to be spending my Per Diem checks on one of these bad boys. Although I'm still not too crazy about the idea of supporting Pakistan..

 

Okiedokie. Let's get down to business.

First up is the front of the cocking tube seen through the middle hole on the front sight after the front plug has been removed:



I post this because some of the earlier ones imported seem to have had crooked cocking tubes. This didn't affect function but it bothered people. Now they are checking this before it is shipped out. Mine is very well centered.


Next are the markings on top of the receiver:



I absolutely LOVE the fact that it is stamped "MP5". Neither HK nor MKE did this and some folks actually had their guns re-stamped to read "MP5". I do have to agree that it is a nice bonus. The "14" refers to the year of manufacture (2014). Behind the claw mount saddle is the serial number (I have obscured part of it).

For comparison purposes, here is the top of the receiver on an MKE manufactured gun:



It has more stuff crammed in there. From the left, we have the manufacturer (MKE), the general model (T94 derived from HK's civilian version HK94), the specific model designation (AT-94P referring to the fact that it is a pistol version). Behind the claw mount saddle we have the factory number (T0624), the year of manufacture ("10" for 2010), the letter "N" (no idea what this means. Some are marked "N" and some are marked "Z") and finally we have the serial number (part of which I have again obscured).

Another complaint some have had about the POF guns is the shiny (as in almost pimpshine shiny) and easily scratched paint. Many of the earlier ones had lots of scratches on them right out of the box. Atlantic Firearms is the main distributer and they have said that the newer ones have better paint. Do they? I'm going to say yes and no. The paint has a little shine but no more than an MKE or my HK's. In the picture below, we see the POF on top and an MKE below. Both are in the shade:



Here are both in the sun:



About the same in the shine department. As for durability, the MKE paint is very durable. Scuffs are seen as dull spots but they don't go through to the metal. The POF does the same but is seems to scratch much easier. Both are just paint, NOT duracoat so they are going to scratch. Time will tell but I have a feeling you had better get used to bare metal showing through if you actually USE your POF (and you should!) Personally, I like patina so scratches are just fine with me. Moving on.


When you unpack your POF, you will find a plastic cap installed:



This thing it TIGHT!!! But it will come off with some patience. You can cut it off (that's what the dealer I bought it from said they usually do. Not on mine you don't!! You guessed it.....I'm keeping that!

After you et the cap off, you see a nicely knurled nut installed on the tip of the barrel:



This is what is referred to as a "Navy" barrel. You can leave the nut on and use the three lugs if you have one of those supressors. HK came up with the three lug mounting system and earlier MP5's only had the three lug design. It's typical German thinking....YOU will adapt to the equipment, it will not adapt to you!! Eventually, they figured out this was goofy and gave into pressure to thread the ends of their barrels to take a more standardized suppressor. So, if you remove the knurled nut to get threads:




Here is the import stamp on the right side of the magazine well:



Earlier imports only read "IMPORTED NATMIL V.B. AR" and that's all this one had at first too. However, FedArm split off from Natmil and the ATF recalled the guns for the addition of text to reflect this split. So, "FEDARM FT Smith AR PAKISTAN" was added. The next batch of imports will probably omit the Natmil text. Notice also that the welds are uniform and nicely done. Also notice that the paint has some texture and a few scratches too. Another thing illustrated is the inclusion of the "third pin" which allows the trigger housing to swing down just as it does on a full auto model. These POF's are the first imports (other than some VERY early and VERY rare HK's in 7.62x51) to have this feature and it's a big deal to some.

So here's the right side of the pistol just waiting to be ripped apart:



Notice that it has an "E" instead of an "F" for fire. On German guns the "E" stands for "Einzelfeuer" or " single fire". Why they marked these this way is unknown to me. Also seen is a sling mounting point on the rear of the polymer end cap.


Here is the left side:




Unreadable inspection stamps on the barrel:




A "23" stamped on the right front of the receiver:



What appears to be either a "65" or a "55" stamped on the bottom front of the receiver:




The whole thing taken apart:



Some stamps on the trigger:



Trigger box:



Compared to both an MKE and an HK trigger box, it's a little crude in appearance. However, in action, function feels identical to the MKE and both have BETTER trigger pulls than both my HK 91 and 93. The way the trigger group has been converted to semi auto is different than the way MKE did it but I'm not going to go into all of that. It's pretty irrelevant really unless you are swapping stuff around but there is no real reason to do so.

Here is the third pin area:



If that little tab was not welded on there, this would be an illegal SMG. It's purpose is to ensure that a full auto trigger group cannot be installed.

Here's a shot with the end cap removed and the lower swung down so that the bolt group can be removed:

 

Now, well start to look at the bolt group. Some have said that the bits look "crude" or "inferior" to HK. I would agree with regards to APPEARANCE of the bolt carrier (but NOT the bolt head or locking piece). But appearance means nothing to function. What matters is dimensions and all of the evidence suggests that these POF guns are properly dimensioned. I will be finding out shortly but I have every confidence that it will be good to go.

Lets look at the bolt head first. On top we see some numbers either stamped or engraved and some letters electro penciled:



I think (but I'm not sure) that the "9/14" is a manufacturing date. What the "P-" means, I have no idea. I'm pretty sure that the "P Q" etched into it are inspection marks. The bolt carrier has similar markings that were blued over but I couldn't get a satisfactory picture of it.


Here is the bolt face in the shade:




And in the sun:



Right side of the bolt head:



One more angle and lighting level:



The machining on this part is every bit the equal of an HK bolt head. In fact, we'll be comparing them in a bit so that you can decide for yourself.


The locking piece:





Again, absolutely beautiful machining.


Here's the back of the bolt head carrier:



Again we see the "P-9/14" mark. Part of the "14" is missing because the full auto sear trip has been milled away. If you look really closely just below where the recoil spring exits the rear of the carrier, you might discern a squiggly looking mark in the metal. This is an electro penciled "Q" similar to the one seen on the bolt head. It has been blued over.

 

Lets do some comparison shots. I don't have an HK94 handy for comparison so we're going to use parts from an HK93. In ALL of the pictures that follow in this post, HK is on the left, POF is in the center and MKE is on the right, To be fair, I need to state that both the HK and the MKE have had quite a few rounds through them while the POF is brand new. So....ignore the dirt marks and look at the machining and details. I'm not going to type a bunch of comments, just what you are looking at. You can make your own decisions. I think the pictures speak for themselves.

Bolt head front:



Rear:




Right side:



Left side:



Top:



Bottom:



Locking piece front:



Rear:



Right side:



Left side:



Top:



Bottom:



Carrier left side:



Right side:



Front:



Bottom:



Rear:



I do have to say one thing here. The rear of the HK carrier looks like Eric Cartman.

 

In these shots, I didn't include an MKE trigger group because it's polymer and comparing it to a steel one is pointless. Again, HK is on the left.

Left side:



Notice that the HK one has it's tab for the third pin clipped off.

Right side:



Front:



Two approaches to arrive at the same result. The HK one has a little tab welded in the front to catch the shelf welded onto the receiver where the third pin would have been. The POF doesn't need the tab because it has the third pin. Notice though that the front of the trigger box has been cut away to allow for the tab welded onto the receiver. This forces the sear pin in the trigger box to be relocated farther back making it impossible to fit full auto parts......unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing to work around this. NO, I'm not telling you how to do it. If none of what I just typed makes sense to you, that's A-OK. Just know that there were modifications done to keep the ATF happy and make the firearm importable. It works just fine so leave it alone and enjoy it.

Here is an assortment of magazines:



From the left we have and MKE magazine that has been shortened to ten rounds and modified so that it will fit into the AT-94A2 magazine well. It will work just fine in a normal magazine well.
Next up is a polymer MKE 30rd. These are fine as range magazines but I wouldn't trust my life to them. They have plastic feed lips that seem to work just fine but I have a hard time trusting plastic feed lips. Also, if loaded and out of the rifle, smacking the bottom on a hard surface often causes cartridges to pop out the top! My full size MKE does not particularly like these magazines either but the K model likes them just fine. I'll find out whether or not the POF likes them.
Next is a steel 30 rd. MKE magazine. These are painted black. The paint is fine but it's often messy. I have yet to have a single jam out of ANY MKE steel magazine.
Next is an HK straight 30rd in blued steel. This particular one is dated April of 1976. They have a classic neato look. HK switched to curved magazines because they offered greater reliability.
Last is a POF 30rd. in blued steel. Some say they are just as good as HK magazines and some say they are crap. I'm going to find out. I have three of them at the moment so that will help me work up a dataset.
I don't have any HK curved magazines at the moment because the MKE's work just as well and I'm simply NOT paying $60+ for a stamped magazine made in literally the MILLIONS.


One last picture showing part of the family:



I like it because it reminds me of the type of pictures found in the old Soldier of Fortune magazines I used to drool over back in the early 80's when I was a teenager. In it we see an HK91 with a surplus Zeiss 1.5-6 Diavari scope mounted, an HK93 with the really slick slimline hand guard and wood stock , an MKE with a 16" barrel, slimline handguard and collapsible stock, a POF pistol with slimline handguard and the wood stock that will be mounted once it's been registered on a Form 1 and lastly, an MKE MP5K with a REALLY cheap (as in $35 but hey, it works) NCStar red dot sight and a Choate folding stock registered on a form 4. I never in a million yeas thought I'd have ANY of these rifles back then. Now I'm blessed to have as many as I do. Every time I take any of them out to the range, I'm transported back to my youth. I'm a kid again watching Predator or Commando or Miami Vice or one of a bunch of other movies/tv shows I loved so much as a kid. Yes, I own them because they are rock solid designs. But mostly I own them because they help me remember the simple joy of what it's like to be a kid. They are time machines that bring back the dreams of youth. Corny, I know but that's who I am.

Anywho, Panzer, I hope this thread helps you out. To everyone else, I hope you enjoyed it too. Have fun and stay safe!

 

You are amazing and I appreciate you sharing this. I'm very motivated to get a POF now thanks to your posting. You threw no stupid punches or had any strings attached. Thank you for sharing and posting.

 

Amazing write up Wilhelm! Where did you order yours from, Atlantic?

 

It came from Atlantic but I didn't order it from there. There is a semi local gun shop that (if I understand it correctly) automatically gets a few from Atlantic when they are available. They set one aside for me so that I would be sure to get one.

 

^ Nice to meet you man I should have bought one ..... I hope another group comes in so I can

 

Nice to meet you too!

 

Thank You for your input on the POF gun and we will soon see our New shipments of the Zentith MKE firearms arriving in May !!

 

Please elaborate.....

 

WoW!! Thank you Atlantic for taking the time to read my work!!

Since you are here, would you be so kind as to tell how many shipments of these have been imported from Pakistan to date? I'm under the impression that there have been two but I didn't want to spread wrong information.

 

Hmmm. I see fun possibilities for an SOT. I'm not an HK smith, but the two pin POF is very intriguing.

 

they are very fun lol We have one K gun and one normal model at work both preform great

 

Really motivated to get a POF.

 

Just a great write up. I really appreciate. My wallet may not, but I do.

 

I want one

 

you posting this on MDshooters?

 

I hadn't planned on it. Should I? I could rework it a little bit and put in Duffy's area I guess.

 

There's a crazy long thread about it over at the HK forum. I'll see if I can find it.....

 

Here you go:

Zenith Quest International & MKE - H&K clones to be imported & manufactured i...

 

I just think its a good write up sir and MDshooters would enjoy it

 

I was fairly impressed at the MKE booth at shot. I liked that all the clones had the paddle mag release and the fit and finish seemed excellent.

 

Any range reports with these?

 

I've had MKE's for about 5-6 years now with many, many rounds through them. They just shoot and shoot and shoot. The full sized one pictured doesn't particularly like the polymer mags (but the K works fine with them. Once in a great while (like maybe one out of 150 rounds) I'll get a jam with the K using straight mags but the full sized one does fine with them. Accuracy with every MKE I've shot has been stellar at 50 yards (I don't see the point in shooting them at a farther distance). I usually shoot at pieces of broken clay pigeons (again, 50 yards) and hit them about 99% of the time. A red dot is really an asset on these little guns.

The POF is going to the range for the first time tomorrow. I'll mostly be testing for function because I can't imagine doing proper accuracy testing without a stock.