[Arik]

Hey Arik,

That's what I thought as well. I was unsure whether folders would be preferable to extending stocks in room-clearing, but seems that function only benefits transportation really.

That's sad, I heard about the bans, and the ammo drama recently. Only after the terrorist attacks in Europe and the political shift towards a central dictatorship do I truly realize how important self-dependence and armament is.

2 points of contact is better than one and 3 is better than 2 so ideally you want the stock extended/open (folding AK stock). Shortening/collapsing an AR stock won't do much and can change your grip. If you're really really really concerned about rifle length and room clearing look at bullpups or SMGs like MP5. I don't know what your laws are like but you may be able to get a Glock chassis where it turns your handgun into a SMG like carbine. Or...... just use a handgun!!!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Neorro]

I wouldn't use the upper hand guard rail, I'd get a side rail mount. For closer range stuff I'd like the optic to sit closer to my face. Have a pistol for your car, and that thing in your trunk. I don't know what your laws are like so figure this all out before doing any of our suggestions. AKMs with side rails and stocks that fold to the left don't allow for the stock to be folded with a mount. I think it's kinda stupid they do that.

I think i prefer it closer as well. Can you use the irons with the side mount? AK rails and scopes seems to already be high enough.
We may only transport weapons to ranges, etc. Or use them for protection of private (business) space AFAIK. But even then, mags must be empty, ammo and weapon separated. Would have to look into that.

A bigger question here is, when do you say "to hell woth it" and start using common sense. CCW permits are basically impossible to obtain (even batons can only be transported, not carried), but I ask myself how bad must a situation be to risk jail time to be a good citizen. That point isnt here yet, but its a stupid choice that might come eventually.

 

[Neorro]

Actually, I would go with the 553-LB.


Personally, I would not use an AK in Europe like you are suggesting, as it would be too easy to get IDed as an enemy. A version of your national assault rifle would be a better choice.

Imteresting point you make. Will a modified AK make me a target? For whom? The Swiss, the migrants? For budget reasons that would be tough, and I wonder how much difference would it make, as I'd probably be considered paramilitary with both. I purchased Russian gear (platecarrier and helmet), have Digital Flora and MARPAT uniforms (if you can call it that). In any case, I would stay off the streets, keep a low profile. But "what to do" and "perception management" deserve a topic on their own. But getting some Swiss Army patches for my Russian gear might be a good idea.

Thanks!

 

[Neorro]

Pistol for visits to the market. Shotgun for 'oh shit' moments. Rifle for "Goddamn it why did they follow me" scenarios.

Ideally you should be as invisible as possible. Avoid conflict whenever possible and a knife is pretty quiet for up-close-and-personal situations.

I agree with the above.. the "AK" is viewed as the 'enemy' weapon in many scenarios..and you would attract the wrong kind of attention if you use it.

I'll try to make a pistol and rifle work hehe. Plus some self defense.

People dont like wood AKs. I wonder how many people would be able to id the 104 above as an AK. But most will know the SIG.
And as you say, if I'm being invisible, will it matter that much? I think having contact to whatever local network you have might be useful.

Good comment, thanks!

 

[Stottman]

Imteresting point you make. Will a modified AK make me a target? For whom? The Swiss, the migrants? For budget reasons that would be tough, and I wonder how much difference would it make, as I'd probably be considered paramilitary with both. I purchased Russian gear (platecarrier and helmet), have Digital Flora and MARPAT uniforms (if you can call it that). In any case, I would stay off the streets, keep a low profile. But "what to do" and "perception management" deserve a topic on their own. But getting some Swiss Army patches for my Russian gear might be a good idea.

Thanks!

Considering the most plausible scenerio of a temporary disruption of Gov't services, the AK and dressing up like Russian GI Joe is not the route I would go. Especially considering the recent refugee crisis and terrorist acts in Europe.

With what little I know of the Swiss Military and compulsary national service, I would rather blend in with "the good guys" in such a scenerio vs sticking out and looking like the "stereotypical"Jihadist.

The same goes with the long term,"everything has collapsed "scenerio as I am sure there will be stories and rumors of Jihadi types in Europe using that as their window to do bad things.

As for what's designs better, I would argue that the SDM AK104 copies are not anymore proven then the 7.62 Sigs. It is a not a conventional AK design like the Chinese are used to, and I trust Swiss engineering and testing more then Chinese.

 

[Itsnodawayitustabe]

Just a thought but 20 round Hungarian mags might help him stand out less. They are lower profile and may make his rifle look like a Sig in the distance

 

[Neorro]

I don't know what's available in Switzerland but there are a lot of good options for stocks. All cones down to what you want it to do and your comfort level. There are $30 stocks and $400 stocks.
https://www.magpul.com/products/buttstocks

https://www.vltor.com/product-category/stocks/

If you Google AR stocks you'll get enough reading material for a week!

If you know Sigs then you're used to fixed stocks anyway but it doesn't seem to be an option for the AK with a fixed folding stock and short barrel.

Flashlight you can take off and use by itself. Obviously for illumination. Signaling. Gives advantage of the first shot as people typically turn away and raise their arm to cover their eyes when light is shined in their face. But really it's just good to see what you're doing since half of the 24hrs cycle is in the dark.


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Interesting. I heard several suggestions to get a folding/extending combination which might not be too bad. From one of the sites you've linked I saw the "Zhukov" which seems to fill that purpose. But I guess that would come a bit later down the line, the rifle, ammo and everything will be quite an extraordinary initial investment for me.

Flashlights seem to be useful overall, not just for guns.
Any recommendations in budget-to-mid range?

I don't know who would have training in Europe. See if you can get a hold of Polanar Tactical. They're in Slovania so you would probably have to go to them. There's EUSECA.COM out of Poland. Google will be your friend.

Save money, find deals, buy used, sell a kidney. Only way to avoid cheap gear!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Good point! It seems our Eastern brethren still have some sort of freedom when it comes to these things. I will definitely look it up.
For now, I found airsoft to be good for self-learning and some basic survival techniques - although you can't really compare that to a real situation.

2 points of contact is better than one and 3 is better than 2 so ideally you want the stock extended/open (folding AK stock). Shortening/collapsing an AR stock won't do much and can change your grip. If you're really really really concerned about rifle length and room clearing look at bullpups or SMGs like MP5. I don't know what your laws are like but you may be able to get a Glock chassis where it turns your handgun into a SMG like carbine. Or...... just use a handgun!!!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Yes, we can get those things. I have a USP which is quite a good pistol. Otherwise I'll shoot through walls with the AK *joking*

Thanks for the assistance mate, appreciated !

- Andi

 

[Neorro]

Thanks for all your input guys. I think for now the 104 will be my pick, I really like it, and with the option of getting a folder for concealability and transport (could probably fit in a backpack compared to a rifle bag) it might be a good, versatile, yet not too expensive solution.

Do you have any tips on optics and eventual side mounts?
For example, is there an option to have an optic, but be able to use irons as a backup? I know AKs are quite high and most optics are lower than on standard rifles. Do you have any recommendations that are good, but not too expensive?

Thanks and have a nice one !

- Andi

 

[Arik]

The options for mounting optics are a little limited if you want to use iron sights at the same time.

Obviously you can use the side mount to attach a low mount. One that sits almost on the dust cover. This will make it low but not low enough to use irons....at least I don't believe so. To use irons you'd have to take the side mount off which takes a second to do. Flip the lever and pull off. I'm pretty sure though that there are optics that can be co witnessed. Hopefully someone with better knowledge of that will chime in.

Another option is offset side mount. Where the optic sits to the left of the of the dust cover. This gives you both the iron sights and optic but not in one. You would have to shift your head. In either of these cases you can't use the folding stock. Can't fold it with the side mount attached.

There are also railed handguards to attach a optic to.

For optics Aim Points are awesome. So are Trijicon. Neither of which are cheap though but you do get what you pay for and they have options from small RMR to magnified.

Russian optics are very good but not all have options for rails. Some come as one unit optic and side mount.

There's a subsection here for optics. Check it out, lots of reviews


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Walleye]

PK-01V and PK-A (both Russian and Venezuelan models) allow for usage of irons.

 

[mike_r123]

That's where I would start.

yes, this. Personally i would choose the ak 103 to take advantage of the muzzle climb reduction. the 762 is not a 12 guage by any means but the recoil is a bit snappier than 556.

for the reasons stated by others, definitely consider some kind of sig 551 552 553 whatever. just as reliable and accurate, and probably much more availability in terms of 556 ammo.

 

[steelfed]

Actually, I would go with the 553-LB.


Personally, I would not use an AK in Europe like you are suggesting, as it would be too easy to get IDed as an enemy. A version of your national assault rifle would be a better choice.

I've thought the same thing. As much as I love my AK it is the bad guy's weapon of choice. But in response to your question hands down I'd go with the 104.

 

[Corrosive]

If you've done something to attract the attention of the "good guys" holding a particular type of rifle isn't going to keep you from getting shot at.

Find the smallest package you can in .30 caliber. Start there.

 

[Neorro]

Thanks for the replies! Let me quickly to get back to you:

@Arik: I would like to check out the section. From another forum, a user recommended this optics - the cool thing is, they have a CQB reticle, as well as markers for up to 600m for the 7.62. I will check the forums, maybe I find something else.

@Walleye: Thank you, these seem cool. Seems $200-300 is the price range to expect for a decent optic.

@mike_r123: You mean a muzzle break? I heard flash suppressors are better, and not as loud. SIGs are unfortunately too expensive for my budget, and I believe the 7.62 would do a better job in this scenario - price is great and I'd stack up at least 1'000 rounds (+ additional 1'000 9mm for handgun). You think that would be enough?

@steelfed and @Corrosive: Thanks guys, that's what I'm starting to focus on. The 104 seems to be versatile, has emergency mounts already installed (if need be) and with a stock swap, I can make it ultra compact. Zhukov or something comes to mind.

 

[Corrosive]

Just keep in mind the wisdom of Patton: "fortified fighting positions are monuments to human stupidity" (paraphrasing because I'm too lazy to look it up).
You can have all the ammo and gear in the world and it wouldn't do you any good if your position becomes compromised and you have no way to transport it without detection.
Stealth goes out the window that first time you open fire on somebody so have a backup plan, or several.
Stay flexible and adaptive.

 

[18B30]

where is your SIG 550?