TSW has good reviews. And i believe someone here had a review of the Parabellum but you would have to do a search. It a few years old.

Never heard of Zenit

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Zenit B-33.

 

Zenit is I believe a Belarusian company that sells optics and some AK accessories.

 

Does that just attach to the front trunion with tension screws? Doesn't look very stable

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No, Zenit is Russian company.
Official site:
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Maybe you call it ZenitCo?)

This is a good review in English:
ZentiCo

 

Welcome, Now that is what I call a ''cheese grater'' forward hand guard.

 

try pming member tx-zen he did a review of all of zenits ak stuff on realliance.net in the realsteel section ZenitCo AK Accessory Review

 

So with the zenit it looks like your dedicated to using a rail. Wouldn't be my first choice.

Welcome to the forum.

 

This is my Saiga.

I have Zenit quadreil) It's ok)

I shot with all of these dust covers) But I need to know how they are in long period use.

 

Read my post here:

http://www.theakforum.net/forums/64...-practical-kalashnikov/170736-parabellum-armament-vs-texas-weapons-systems.html

I think the choice for you should be clear, especially since you already have ZenitCo B-30 + B-31 "Monster Rail" hand guards installed...
However, if after adding it you put some cheap Chinese knock-off optic on it and not Acog or Trijicon, I will have to come to Moscow and personally shoot you (joke!).

 

I choose Aimpoint) And i'm not from Moscow)) I'm from Kaliningrad)

So... TWS better then AKARS. And Zenit better then all. All right?
But with Zenit dust cover weapons looks very fat) And it offends my sense of beauty

 

... And it offends my sense of beauty

I thought you wanted to know and choose based on their physical qualities???
If you care more for the looks, than it is going to end up like with women. Some like them fat, some like them skinny, some like them tall, some like them short...
But if your woman does not serve what you think her purpose is supposed to be, than you are wasting your effort and your money

 

Where is zenit located? Also, to you russian peeps, my friend Katiya is going back home to St. Petersburg for to visit family. Any stores I can send her to for my personal AK needs? Not trying to hijack a thread, sorry.

 

Where is zenit located?

There are US vendors. Look around. Read links that were listed above. I doubt it will take you more than 10 min to find one.
Remember, showing direct links to on-line stores may be against Forum's policy.

 

You know a buddy of mine went back to Serbia for a month and I had a list for him and in the end just said fuck it. I'd rather not get him into trouble.

0_0 I thought that Zenit just attached via the recoil spring and pressure screws on either side of the rear sight base. Considering that it actually attaches to a rail I'd say that's your best bet. Especially when you already have the handguards.

Kaliningrad! My aunt is from there!

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Jbird206, in St. Petersburg Katia can buy it, but it will be more expensive than in the order from Moscov.

 

If we look closely at the design....
We will see that the front mounting at the Zenith are not important. Because after them is the hinge (Number 1 on photo).

And it turns out that both covers the same number of attachment points. But TWS have lateral spring (Number 3 on photo).

And so, I can't understand why Zenith better holds zero?

 

And so, I can't understand why Zenith better holds zero?

keep in mind all hinges are not created equal. You have dresser drawer hinges and you have bank safe door hinges, all being hinges but not designed for the same task. Just the fact both have hinges does not mean anything of any significance.

The Zenitco hinge is completely ground-up designed for this particular task, having a larger pin with a wide hinge ear spacing. while the hinge ears on the AK rear sight base have a smaller diameter, non-circular hole and the bores are narrowly spaced, and were not designed to hold a top cover loaded with a heavy sight. Theoretically, the Zenitco design should be more stable.

I'm sure both designs are satisfactory, and I'd be glad to have either one, but I can see why using a wider, more robust hinge design that does not rely on the original parts of the rifle not designed for the task to secure the top cover would be a better way to go.

 

On the Zenit picture, your circle #1 is actually covering two attachment points:

See steel half-circle inlay that goes in to the notch where dust cover would normally go?
That spot takes upon itself the bulk of the kinetic force of the returning bolt carrier, whereas the other design will send that force to the rear irons hinge and its tiny winy axis which actually holds the dust cover AND the scope attached to the dust cover. Remember, together, that might (with some scopes) be up to 1.5kg...

 

See steel half-circle inlay that goes in to the notch where dust cover would normally go?

That spot takes upon itself the bulk of the kinetic force of the returning bolt carrier, whereas the other design will send that force to the rear irons hinge and its tiny winy axis which actually holds the dust cover AND the scope attached to the dust cover.

This is incorrect. When the bolt carrier returns to battery it makes contact with the front trunnion only. The groove you mention is located in the rear sight block which does not restrain the movement of the carrier. Since the bolt carrier never touches the inside of the cover nor the rear sight block it only transfers it's forces to the front trunnion. Bearing this in mind there are absolutely zero forces (zip, nada, zilch) transferred through the hinge pin.

Firing the weapon is a violent act. You get a great big noise and a kick in the shoulder. Sometimes folks don't take the time to analyze things in a methodical manner and just kind of assume the entire process is violent. In fact, only the first half is violent. The part where you get kicked in the shoulder. The second half of the process is very mild. Hold the carrier all the way to the back and then release. You get a little clatter and not much else. The return to battery is very mild as you already know. By comparison the hinge pin is capable of supporting the weight of a man. Not so "tiny winy" actually.

 

Sooo... When we use zenit, we obtain a system identical to this?

 

That picture is about 5 years old and it is of factory prototype of so called AK-200 series which never materialized...

You should know better than most people at this forum how complex Russian (criminal) code is when it comes to firearms.
To you have to be a licensed gunsmith to be able to make functional changes in to design of your own registered firearm. Am I correct? Not to mention that during annual inspection (of the content of your gun safe) even some of the most innocent changes to your weapon can blown out of proportions by the inspector...
Zenit's goal is to create accessories which do not require any modifications to the actual weapon. Not a single screw hole or a tack weld, nothing at all...

Bottom line, when you buy Zenit, you do in fact buy something that is pretty close (when compared to most other available designs) to the quality and reliability of actual gun manufacturers. My personal problem with Zenit's stuff, is their over-reliance on Allen wrench and various screws...

 

ok131158 knows what hes talking about, I can personally give a review on the TWS system. Its good quality, built well, but does not work. It does not hold zero.

Drakin

 

Drakin,

If your TWS cover is not holding zero then something is wrong with the installation. Make sure the leaf spring is installed under the front tab, make absolutely sure the cam lock release button is installed, maybe tighten up the side pressure with the right side spring panel, and lastly be sure the bottom rear edge of the cover sits squarely into the trunnion groove.

 

It is AK-74M3, not AK-200.

This is AK-200:

Russian laws prohibit change only three parts: barrel, bolt, resiver.
All other parts I can remodel)

We have Saiga 12 - 030 with rail dust cover. And it's ok)

 

Hey 0-0,
In russia, do you guys have military surplus stores there? Places were you can buy old com-block stuff like, mag pouch's, mag's Ect?
Drakin

 

Need to buy Zenith

because all against TWS.


drakinclaw, what exactly you need?

 

drakinclaw, what exactly you need?

I was just curious is all

 

This part is not main. I can do with it what I want. Read the laws, everything is written) But this topic is not about it.




Today I talked with people who have used TWS and Zenith in combat. All told there is no difference between them. Everything works fine up to 300 meters.
And I shot at 100 meters with both dust covers. All ok.


So... Why so different opinions here and there?

 

This part is not main. I can do with it what I want. Read the laws, everything is written) But this topic is not about it.




Today I talked with people who have used TWS and Zenith in combat. All told there is no difference between them. Everything works fine up to 300 meters.
And I shot at 100 meters with both dust covers. All ok.


So... Why so different opinions here and there?

Диванные войска??

 

Exactly))

 

Lol....if you step back and look, and read some posts. Allthroughout is laced a lot of purist junk. It seems some of the westerners in here are combloc wannabees. Anyone who has actually owned and used a TWS cover with a light weight optic ( as they suggest at TWS ) will tell you that they will hold zero perfectly if properly installed. Cleaning is just as easy as the OEM and the weight difference is not worth mentioning. I will agree that there is no need for optics on an AK at all. It's a street fighter not a sniper's best friend. Home defense is it's niche, along with a good 12 gauge and a handgun. At 200 meters against an AR, with a good captain at the controls, you'll be meeting Jesus from recoil recovery alone. Hang out and wait for him to get closer and send him to his maker with a softpoint or hollow. Never lose patience with it. Give it it's best chance. You just can't "WILL" it to be better. Make it it's own best. I will save you if you let it.

 

EVR, is that you?

 

 

Hi 0-0,

This thread is a little old, but since it has some recent activity I'll chime in. It seems some folks don't fully understand the workings of the TWS system and are providing you with incorrect information. I'll do my best to (one by one) clear up any misinformation as simply as possible. When you need the most accurate information possible it's generally best to go to the source. Since I designed the thing, you could say I know a little something about it.

Let's deal with the most obvious issue first. In the photo of this rifle there is a problem. It is not using the new cam lock button that came in the box. The cam lock button is essential to the proper functioning of the system. Without the new button the cover will be able to move up and down and tilt a tiny little bit. Find the cam lock button and put it in.

 

There is a site called AK operators union that has a lot of info about the Zenit systems etc. AKM (AK47) / AK74 Rail system: Zenit B30C and B31C the fellow that runs it seems to be formerly from Russia I believe and there is input from a Russian SOF training outfit of some sort. I am curios though as to why do you not just use the side rail and a mount for that with your Aimpoint,? I have that set up and it holds zero even when removed and reinstalled constantly to fold the weapon for storage or maintenance.