3-4
They used stripper clips and a charging spoon.

 

3-4
They used stripper clips and a charging spoon.

Not with 7.62 x 39mm, they didn't.

 

3-4
They used stripper clips and a charging spoon.

Not with 7.62 x 39mm, they didn't.

What makes you say that?

 

The 7.62 you see on strippers was loaded for the SKS, and the Soviets
had no magazine loading tool for their use.

Those Chinese things with the star on them have no relation to the Soviet load out.

Extra ammo was bundled in paper packages, and mags were loaded by hand.

 

I thought that there were 6 mags issued to each soldier.

 

I thought that there were 6 mags issued to each soldier.

Yup!

 

6 at first, to be certain, with the AK-47, with one in the rifle and 5 in a pouch.

The 5-mag pouches were eventually abandoned for a single 3-cell pouch by the time the AKM was adopted. I don't know why. Maybe for economy?

Here's a scan from the 1952 (Ak-47, not AKM) field manual:

 

Appreciate the replies. Since they loaded their mags by hand how was the ammo supply distributed?

In other words, did they have ammo boxes laid out near their positions? was there soldiers responsible for supplying the infantrymen?

Just trying to get a handle on the logistics of keeping an ammo supply at hand....For small squads, or covert missions, I guess it was all you could carry within reason?

 

Appreciate the replies. Since they loaded their mags by hand how was the ammo supply distributed?

In other words, did they have ammo boxes laid out near their positions? was there soldiers responsible for supplying the infantrymen?

Just trying to get a handle on the logistics of keeping an ammo supply at hand....For small squads, or covert missions, I guess it was all you could carry within reason?

Ammo was supplied in spam cans. Rear area had a mechanical hand tool that opened up the can much like your kitchen can opener. On the front line, the supplied hand opener per 2 can crate was the method to open them.

I am sure like any Army, the lowest Private was given the job of opening multiple cans.

Hootbro

 

Soviet soldiers don't need resupply until after the battle.

Soviet military doctrine is the assault. Troops would be thrown at the objective until it is over-run. Entire divisions might be completely consumed during the assault.

In other words, Soviet troops were not really expected to survive any battle. Follow on troops would hold the ground or continue the assault.

Soviet divisions do not have supply, support or medical units like AMERICAN divisions do.

That is the way they did it in WWII. That is how they do it today and it is the military doctrine of all Commie troops. The same tactics were used in Korea by the Chinese who often commited troopers to battle with NO WEAPONS as they could get one off the battlefield during of after the attack. Same thing from time to time in VN.

This is something to remember because as a civilian your requirement for an ammo load out is like 1 30 round mag. You will not survive any longer than that in any shoot out you get yourself into.

 

Okay, so with or without supply support would it make any sense whatsoever to carry more than 6 loaded mags into a fire fight?

Sometimes I wonder why someone would need to stock-pile a whole lot of mags, (besides collectors, or investment purposes) when it seems you would really only need a few.

 

Soviet soldiers don't need resupply until after the battle.

Soviet military doctrine is the assault. Troops would be thrown at the objective until it is over-run. Entire divisions might be completely consumed during the assault.

In other words, Soviet troops were not really expected to survive any battle. Follow on troops would hold the ground or continue the assault.

Soviet divisions do not have supply, support or medical units like AMERICAN divisions do.

That is the way they did it in WWII. That is how they do it today and it is the military doctrine of all Commie troops. The same tactics were used in Korea by the Chinese who often commited troopers to battle with NO WEAPONS as they could get one off the battlefield during of after the attack. Same thing from time to time in VN.

This is something to remember because as a civilian your requirement for an ammo load out is like 1 30 round mag. You will not survive any longer than that in any shoot out you get yourself into.

Please cite a source for the above information regarding Soviet doctrine post WWII.

 

Do your own research. It is there. You could start with us military manuals. Or read a book or two.

 

Let me rephrase my previous statment- could you recommend some good books (beyond U.S. manuals from the period) that discuss Soviet infantry tactics in the cold war era? It sounds like an interesting topic that I would like to read up on a little more- one of those periods of history I am not as well read on as I would like to be.

My previous post was not meant to sound trite, but upon rereading it I see how it might have been taken that way.

 

Depends on the era,

From what I have been able to gather at least from the Russian side:
The first mag bags held 5 until the late 50s until the early 60s
The next iteration held 3 magazines.

With the advent of the AK74:
A four cell mag bag was issued but as I understand it it was intended to hold 3 magazines and 4 15 round stripper clips and a charger.

Chest rigs that I have seen held anywhere from 3 to 8 magazines.

Most other countries AK that I have pulled out of the crates have 4 magazines per rifle (Romanian and Egyptian). Some of the Hungarians had 5-6 magazines (if memory serves correctly) depending on the pouch it was shipped with.

 

I think I've seen pictures of Soviet troops in Afghanistan and Chechnya with more than 3, 4, or 5 magazines on their person.

 

This is something to remember because as a civilian your requirement for an ammo load out is like 1 30 round mag. You will not survive any longer than that in any shoot out you get yourself into.

I have to disagree :wink:

 

Yes, there are always exceptions of course to the above numbers, the pics you saw; were those normal rifle troops or Spetznaz? I guess I should have also mentioned I am not sure what happened into the 90s and afterward. I spent some time awhile back with a FCC Spetznaz unit and their operators carried 8-9 magazines as a basic load for AKM and AK-74. I sometimes still get locked into the cold war numbers.

It is like the average basic load for the US Army changes over time but I was issued 210 rounds and 7 magazines when I went downrange a few years back but I always had 8-10 loaded magazines with me. Some guys carried fewer and some carried as many as 14. Personal load depends a lot on what its user feels he needs in wartime and can scroung up. I can only guess that people have similar thoughts in other armies.

 

i thought i read from some account of a russian spetz that regular russian infantry were issued 5 but would trade or steal to get more.

eta i thought it was "humping a ruck across sunny afganistan" but it wasnt in there, maybe it was "one soldiers war"

 

This is something to remember because as a civilian your requirement for an ammo load out is like 1 30 round mag. You will not survive any longer than that in any shoot out you get yourself into.

I have to disagree :wink:

+1.
:wink: :wink:

 

[quote="s70fan] You will not survive any longer than that in any shoot out you get yourself into.[/quote]

Pshaw.

The Corn God will aid me against mine enemies. I shall survive a LOT longer than that, thanks to his munificence.

 

OK, you can carry just one mag. Ill carry a few more. The guys in Viet Nam reportedly carried as many magazines as they could carry/scrounge. One guy I knew carried a laundry bag of 20 rounders.

 

They issued us 7 mags in country, but every time I went out I had about 12-14 on me, plus whatever they had stashed in the truck.

You could find loaded 30 rounders everywhere; they would turn up under seats, in little nooks and crannies, on the floors and behind the Blue Force Tracker screens on all the trucks. I found one in the middle of the road in the FOB one day, turned around, drove by it, opened my door and scooped it up as I drove by. Miraculously, it had not been run over, so I kept it in my stash, and still have it to this day.

Kinda funny, they made us turn in all our issue mags, and told us to get rid of all our ammo when the helicopters came to pick us up to take us to Balad so we could catch the bird to Kuwait. We were like, "No fuckin' way, man. What if the chopper goes down on the way? What are we supposed to do? Use foul language?" Our unit CoC never gave us a satisfactory answer, so I kept two mags out of my stash loaded up and attached to the buttstock of my rifle (Hell, a LOT of us did this) all the way to Kuwait International, where I downloaded the rounds into an amnesty barrel and stuck the mags in my duffle bag for the trip home. I still have all 14 of my stash from over there.

 

The Soviets as a whole never used the stripper clips issued with the '74. You have to load them up on the strips manually, then load them into the mags. It's just as easy to load them into the mags by hand. I'm sure there was some "special" troop somewhere who liked strippers and used them because he had them, but that was rare.

 

According to the brain trust in my unit in Germany ('82-'85) the soviet front line troopers were carrying 3-6 mags each. The pictures of the era ussually showed the ruskies with pretty light field gear, one mag pouch,a canteen and a small bread bag type bag. I didn't find out about the chest rigs untill after I got back state side and got a hold of some pics from A'stan. Just like others have said, ammo comes bulk in spam cans. From conversations with Russians/east bloc guys over the years, reality is just like in any army. You scrounge what you need, aided by the fact that it doesn't seem like the Russian army seems to be over run with nearly as much hand receipt/weapons card BS as the US Army. Mags etc. are pretty much expendable in all but the poorest armies, more so when the shooting starts.

According to two friends of mine who did more than a year each in A'stan with the Russian/East Bloc tour groups, the normal load was 6-12 mags per trooper. Both stated that ammo was MUCH easier to get than food. It was basically everywhere. One of them was a mechanised/armor guy, he says every BMP had the floor covered with cases of 7.62X39 and X54mm. The other guy was in a Guards Airborne unit, said that the limit of practicallity was 12-14 mags. Any more and you just didn't have any way to carry them. Both say the 40 rounders weren't popular, didn't have mag pouches for them.