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New to AK'S. just purchased an American Arms import, stamped receiver,stainless bolt & carrier, RPK furniture, serial# 1031, English markings on receiver for safe & fire. Zastava-kragujevac, made in yugoslavia markings on receiver. Can't find serial #'s on bolt or front sight. Do I have a mixmaster shooter or something with some value? Thanks for any info.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Hello there, toms, and welcome to the board. :smile:

I'm no expert on the US market semi-autos, but I think that the one you have there is quite an expensive piece. With those markings, it should be a 'pre-ban' rifle, imported by American Arms of North Kansas City, Missouri.

Your rifle is a factory built AK, one of the finest there is. It is an RPK-type long-barreled weapon with a bipod, right? [It should be if it has the RPK furniture]. In any case, it seems as you started your AK collection with a 'crown jewel'. :smile:

It would be great if you could post a picture of your rifle.



-Dan- :smile:
 

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thanks Dan. Being a newbie I probably didn't describe very well. I believe the furniture to be RPK based on pictures I found on other sites. There is no bipod. Please advise what lenght barrell is considered a long barrel.
I will attempt to post some pictures. I do know that it came from the collection of deceased Marine Corps general whose wife is selling off his collection, which apparently was quite extensive and first class (lots of polytechs). I purchased at a gun show from a friend who is a private dealer. He told me that he had made three trips to the widows house and had spent almost $50K on guns from his collection, with lots more left to buy. He sold it to me at cost-$500. I bought it for a shooter but sounds like I got more than I expected.
 

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Wow, thanks for an interesting story, really a good read! Sounds like your gun came from a pretty good collection! If you paid no more than 500 dollars for it, you have most likely made the deal of the decade; These guns, as far as I know, usually go for about twice that amount, so you were very lucky on that one!

This is what I mean with long barrel [This is a Mitchell Arms import 'M72-style' RPK-type Yugoslavian semi-auto];



...or does your gun look a little more like the one in this picture?;

http://photos.imageevent.com/willyp/rus ... 20grip.jpg


Congrats on that great deal; you will see that the Century arms kit-built guns [which sometimes has a 'shady' rep] goes for a lot more than 500 dollars. :smile:



-Dan- :smile:
 

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Dan, my gun is exactly like the one in your second picture. I was trying to post some pictures but have not figured out how to get them uploaded. You nailed it with the second pictue. So, what do I have?
Thanks
Toms
 

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Cool! What you have is a quite rare and very expensive factory-built Yugoslavian semi-automatic AK, based on the military version called 'M70 B1', and your gun is worth way more than what you paid for it.

The main difference between the military M70 B1 and your rifle [with exception of the full-auto feature present on the mil-spec gun, of course], is the gas block [mil-spec guns and guns built from ex-full auto kits have a gas block with an integrated flip-up grenade sight] and the pistol grip [mil-spec guns have black plastic ones, while yours is similar to the type found on all M76 sniper rifles].

Here is a picture of a military full-auto Zastava M70 B1 [your rifle is essentially a semi-automatic version of this];

http://www.zastava-arms.rs/cms/assets/i ... M70_B1.jpg

Here is a picture of a Zastava M76 military sniper rifle. This rifle has the same pistol grip as your rifle;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 6-Full.jpg

Does your rifle have a scope rail? I don't think any of the American Arms Zastava imports came with scope rails, but I might be wrong?

Your gun is built to the same very high standards as Zastava's military weapons, which means that it has underwent some serious quality control.

You certainly started your AK collection with one of the finest pieces on the market!


Now you must send it to me. [joke! :wink: ]



-Dan- :smile:
 

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Thanks Dan. I'm such an idiot and so new to this forum that I didn't realize there was a page two to this thread. I've been checking daily and wondering why there was no answer to my last post. Then, I just happened to look down and see the 2 at the bottom of the screen. Geez, what a dummy. Thanks for the great information. Boy did I get lucky on this one.
Tom :grin:
 

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No problem, Tom! Welcome to the club! :wink:

You have one sweet and very interesting high-quality rifle for sure! Cool that it is a fixed-stock model, my fixed-stock Zastava [M70 B1] is a lot more comfortable on the whole cheek weld issue than any of my underfolders.

One thing that you might find interesting to know about your rifle, is that it has a thicker barrel than most other stamped-receiver AKs. The Yugoslavian AKs are pretty unique in the AK world with a number of small features that differ from 'ordinary' AKs. Your rifle has a receiver that ~50% thicker than most other stamped AKs [except the Chinese models and the Iraqi 'Tabuk']. The barrel trunnion of your rifle is identical to the one commonly found on the heavy-duty RPK machine gun versions. The main bulk of the Yugoslavian stamped AKs were made with these beefier receivers and trunnions in order to better withstand and absorb the violent recoil forces generated when military rifle grenades are launched from the muzzle, and these features were also carried over on to the commercial semi-automatic models.

Word of advice though; your rifle, together with any of the ex-Yugo army military M70-series, does not have a chrome-lined barrel. [Most other AKs do have chrome-lined barrels.] Therefore, it is important that you clean your rifle thoroughly after each time you have shot it. This is to ensure that the residues of the commonly available corrosive ammunition does not start pitting the inside of the barrel. A severely pitted barrel can/will drastically reduce accuracy.

Rock on!


-Dan- :smile:
 

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Thanks for the good advice. And the great information. I look forward to a lot of good shooting with it. And I am pretty much anal about cleaning guns but I'll be sure to clean this one everytime for sure. I have learned a ton on this forum already and will continue to check it our frequently for new informatin.
 

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I guess we all have our own shooting styles but I dearly love a fixed stock Yugo for shooting left handed, right handed the comb is a little high but still better than a folder. Tom, I think you will find your Yugo feels a little different to shoot than any of your other AKs. You got a nice gun with a good deal so enjoy, like Dan said, if you don't clean it you will end up with one like all the rest of us-I don't think anyone in Yugoslavia had a cleaning kit-LOL Aaron
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Glad you found it useful. :smile:


toms said:
I'll be sure to clean this one everytime for sure.
Yes, do that. This way you wil also maintain the financial value of your gun, and as Aaron said, you're very lucky to have a genuine Yugoslavian gun with a good bore in the first place. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this board who envy you already. :wink:



-Dan-
 

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Thanks. Can't believe I got this lucky on my first AK purchase. I have run 90 rounds through it without a hiccup. Great fun!!! Then cleaned it of course.
 

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toms said:
Thanks. Can't believe I got this lucky on my first AK purchase. I have run 90 rounds through it without a hiccup. Great fun!!! Then cleaned it of course.
:amen: :allright:



-Dan- :smile:
 

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Hey Dan. How much of a factor was Yugoslavia's contentious relationship with the Soviet Union ("Tito's Yugoslavia") in the differences between yugo built AKs and other comblock AKMs? I've read that many of the differences between the Russian and Chinese AKMs was due to the falling out China had with Russia in the 1970s and was curious how comparable it was to Russia and Yugoslavia.
 

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I may be able to help a bit with this.


Hey Dan. How much of a factor was Yugoslavia's contentious relationship with the Soviet Union ("Tito's Yugoslavia") in the differences between yugo built AKs and other comblock AKMs? I've read that many of the differences between the Russian and Chinese AKMs was due to the falling out China had with Russia in the 1970s and was curious how comparable it was to Russia and Yugoslavia.
From what I read, the single most distinguishing feature of the Yugo's that resulted from rifts with the Soviet Union, was the gas system that would allow them to launch anti-tank grenades (among others). I think it was seen as a stop gap measure to counter the excess in armor that the soviets would comparatively have, to augment other anti-tank weapons. Granted it probably wouldn't do much damage to the newer models of tanks that would've been encountered in such a scenario, but the same probably didn't apply for armored personnel carriers and "thin skin" vehicles. I think that's why the SKS were also retrofitted with the launchers. And I'm pretty sure there was a grenade attachment to the M48 Mausers for that purpose.

Personally I always thought the stamped Yugo's were more along the lines of the milled AK-47 designs than most other AKM's. The way the stock attaches to the rear trunnion with the bolt running through it, the fact that the rear trunnion itself allows for the complete enclosure of the receiver (no wood protruding into the receiver I mean). The angle of the buttstock (at least on the wood stock models). The pistol grip nut riveted to the receiver. And the machining and profile of the FSB and I guess other little stuff like that.
 

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Duno., I have never heard anything about a counter to USSR armor. The Poiish Tantal has a grenade feature as well and a unique design. Likewise the Czech Republic went their own way., VZ52., VZ58 CZ52 etc.. I think some countries depending on their distance (politically) from the USSR designed their own weapons or were free to modify existing weapons as they saw fit.
 

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Duno., I have never heard anything about a counter to USSR armor. The Poiish Tantal has a grenade feature as well and a unique design. Likewise the Czech Republic went their own way., VZ52., VZ58 CZ52 etc.. I think some countries depending on their distance (politically) from the USSR designed their own weapons or were free to modify existing weapons as they saw fit.
I could swear I'm not hallucinating on that. While there may be several AK producing countries, (and Czechoslovakia thanks to their VZ-58), that came up with their own takes on the AK, to my knowledge, Yugoslavia was the sole country to methodically go through several different rifle designs serving as the primary infantry armament of their forces at a given time, and bother modifying a large chunk of samples of these rifle types to possess a rifle-grenade launching capacity.

The M48 and other Mauser type rifles in service had an attachable rifle grenade launching system designed (or possibly even copied from someone else) around it. Though it does not appear to have been as heavily used as on the SKS, or AK.

Poland apparently toyed with the idea of having grenade launching capacity on their AK's even prior to the Tantal, but before it entered service, I don't think those AK-47 or AKM models they had this feature on, circulated anywhere near as highly in proportion to non grenade-launching variants, as they did in the Yugo military. Nor do I think the very first model of the Polish copy had a grenade launching feature already incorporated into the design. And as for the SKS's and bolt action rifles in service, as far as I know, no attempt was made to design such a capacity on.

Finland like Yugoslavia I think also incorporated this into their common file AK variant, but I don't think they quite went through the trouble of retrofitting their bolt action rifles to rifle-grenade launching capacity. As for SKS, I don't know that Finland adopted them at all, so whether they would've bothered retrofitting them for this purpose I don't know.

I think the Chinese Type 81 also has rifle grenade launching capacity, but to my knowledge they didn't bother going through the trouble of making it an integral part of their SKS or AK variants, nor bolt action rifles that probably served as the mainstay in the 50's and 60's.



So yeah I think your right that the political independence allowed it to be modified as Yugoslavia saw fit, but i still figure there's got to be a reason why they saw fit an emphasis on rifle-grenades, when no one else did it. I mean it could be wrong, but I don't see the explanation I remember reading, as that unlikely, cause certain models of those grenades did have some use against at least lower quality armor. And the Soviets would probably come in with lots of tanks and APC/IFV, in case they attacked. Then again, the JNA seemed to have a knack for having weapons inventories that seemed to go counter to what most other forces thought made sense.
 

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Dunno either., but variations seem to be pretty common.,why did Hungary make so many AMD65's for airborne or mechanized., I doubt they had many of either and the rifle is far from soviet block standard.
Variations seem to abound., why did Yugoslavia decide not to chrome line their SKS and AK?
As Yugoslavia was never a USSR member state I think they played both sides of the fence and whether the Nato spec grenade thing was an anti-USSR device., dunno.
Dan may have some documentation on this.
 

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AKBLUE said:
As Yugoslavia was never a USSR member state I think they played both sides of the fence and whether the Nato spec grenade thing was an anti-USSR device., dunno.
Due to pressure from the US regarding military standardizations, NATO encouraged its membership countires in the early 60s to go for a final standard with regards to 22mm rifle grenade launchers for their different pattern rifles. As AKBLUE mentioned, Yugoslavia was a bit torn between the 'West and the East', but at the same time they were clever enough to limit their ties to the two major military unions. They were in many respects free to go their own ways, since they didn't really have anyone that restricted them. However, while Yugoslavia were reluctant to enter any sort of a military union with anyone, they did see the potential of adopting the NATO idea in regards to 22mm grenade launchers, and with that, the first modern automatic rifle with a 22mm NATO-spec grenade launcher to be adopted in the Eastern Europe, was the Zastava M59/66 SKS [*]. This, along with the fact that Yugoslavia were free to do military trades with whomever they wanted, including NATO, also gave the Yugoslavs another advantage over the Warsaw Pact countries; they could produce 22mm standard NATO rifle grenades for export, and West Germany and Portugal, among others, bought these rifle grenades for their G3s. They also exported these rifle grenades to certain countries in South America, the Middle East and possibly also Africa and Asia.

The grenade patterns themselves were originally designed by Western military research facilites [can't remember exactly where, could be US or could be Europe], and, given the political climate and the ongoing Cold War, one must reasonably assume that the original NATO 'anti-tank' variants were primarily designed to take out Soviet armour. What the Yugoslavs did, was to further develop both the NATO-spec anti-armour and anti-personnel rifle grenades. This gave the Yugoslavs an advantage and a leading position for several years on the 'international NATO-spec rifle grenade market'.

[*] Prior to his, the Yugoslavs had made a great number of rifles of the old Mauser M48 pattern with the same grenade-launching capability. This version was reportedly designated 'M48/60'. However, like I mentioned above, the first rifle to be standardized with the NATO-spec grenade-launcher and subsequentially universally issued in a nation-wide basis in the Eastern Europe, was the Zastava M59/66.

Horrible stuff, those rifle grenades.


-Dan-
 
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