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Discussion Starter #1
This mag has the expected bolt hold open feature common to Yugoslavian mags plus the side of the body is cut for what appears to be a bolt stop, like on an M14.

Perhaps someone has some definative knowledge about this or the internal mechanism involved.

Here's a pic of the top half of the 30rd mag.



I took a shot at emailing Zastava Kragujeravak, asking about it. We'll see.
 

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I had a couple like that too. The back of the follower actually holds the bolt back.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Zastava replied:

Dear Sir,

Some time ago we have made magazine you wrote us about. The receiver of gun was made by milling and on its side there was a mechanism with the following function: stopping the bolt when the magazine is empty. According to this, magazine had to have the slot for contact: the magazine follower and mechanism for stopping of the bolt. At this moment, we make the receiver by pressing without the bolt stop. Consequently, the magazine must have the magazine follower with function of a bolt stop.



We hope that you are satisfied with our reply. The picture which we can send you is the same that you have. As this is from old production, it would be very difficult and we would have to spend much time to find documentation for it.


Best regards,

ZASTAVA ARMS
Marketing Department
Trg topolivaca 4
34000 Kragujevac
SERBIA

Tel: +381 34 336 077
Fax: +381 34 323 683



www.zastava-arms.co.yu
e-mail: [email protected]

Apparently, that is why the milled receiver did not have a "lightening cut" on the left side. That's where the bolt stop mechanism would probably be located.

Everyone, check your milled kits for the mechanism!
 

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Excellent work on getting in touch with the Yugos.

That answers a question I've had for a long time about something that Ed Ezell wrote in Small Arms of The World (12th edition, p. 839):

... [Since the Yugoslavian AK] family of weapons has a bolt stop--bolt holding open device--which works on a notch cut in the magazine, the standard AK magazines cannot be used with these guns.
I've never seen it, so I thought he must have confused the bolt-hold open magazines with something integral to the rifles. I apologize to the late Dr. Ezell for doubting him!

I've got a milled M70 parts set, but if it did have one, there isn't enough of it left to see how the bolt hold-open would work.





Can anyone get a picture of one that hasn't been mangled?
 

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Richard W. said:
Excellent work on getting in touch with the Yugos.

That answers a question I've had for a long time about something that Ed Ezell wrote in Small Arms of The World (12th edition, p. 839):

... [Since the Yugoslavian AK] family of weapons has a bolt stop--bolt holding open device--which works on a notch cut in the magazine, the standard AK magazines cannot be used with these guns.
I've never seen it, so I thought he must have confused the bolt-hold open magazines with something integral to the rifles. I apologize to the late Dr. Ezell for doubting him!

I've got a milled M70 parts set, but if it did have one, there isn't enough of it left to see how the bolt hold-open would work.





Can anyone get a picture of one that hasn't been mangled?
There is no bolt hold open.. The mags just lock back after the last round.. Once the mag is removed, the bolt slams forward.
 

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I wish you'd try to be more specific. There are many kinds of Yugo AK's.

If all of your experience is with stamped receiver rifles, for instance, perhaps you might say so.
 

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Richard W. said:
I wish you'd try to be more specific. There are many kinds of Yugo AK's.

If all of your experience is with stamped receiver rifles, for instance, perhaps you might say so.
I have fired all kinds.. Both milled and stamped rifles.. RPK length, and standad length.. fixed stock, underfolder, buttstock removed by the user, etc.. Basically every type that was in regular Serb service... During the late 90s and early 00s, I spent about 24 months of my life in that area. 18 of those months, Every Sunday was spent at the range shooting... US stuff gets boring after awhile, so would shoot stuff from the captured weapons locker.. AKs from Serbia, Albania, Russia, Bulgaria, DDR, Egypt, Chicom, M1A1 Thompsons, MG53 (Yugo MG42),MG34s, Yugo M76s, RPDs, FALs, G-3s, PPsh41s, etc..

Only bolt hold open the AKs had was mag dependent. There might have weird internal mod, but the Yugo mags would also hold the bolt open on other guns as well. It locks the bolt open to let youu know you are out, then slams home when you remove the mag.

Here are some views of some Yugos-







I dont see a bolt hold open. Newer designs (M92, etc) dont seem to have one either.

Ezell's book I dont trust.. IMHO, this is the most overrated AK book out there.. 1/3 of the book is him regurgitating the history of Soviet small arms from some translation of a Russian book, other 1/3 is him telling about his visits with Kalashnikov, and the other 1/3 is him regurgitating stuff from product brochures and other peoples work. 90% of the photos are someone elses.. The guy is a book worm; The revision was written after his death by his wife, and she admits in the beginning of the book that she doesnt know what she is talking about.

A product brochure, they might have been talking about the standard magazine bolt hold open, or something else that was lost in translation.
 

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Rob- Thanks for your reply.

I'm still puzzled by the factory's response and the notched mag, though, and I hoped we might be on to something.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
From an engineering & especially a logistical standpoint, I can see an explanation for this. I am speculating based on what evidence & testimony we have:

The receiver of gun was made by milling and on its side there was a mechanism with the following function: stopping the bolt when the magazine is empty. According to this, magazine had to have the slot for contact: the magazine follower and mechanism for stopping of the bolt.
ZASTAVA
[Since the Yugoslavian AK] family of weapons has a bolt stop--bolt holding open device--which works on a notch cut in the magazine, the standard AK magazines cannot be used with these guns.
ECE

Once these weapons began to be exported to other nations, the issue of not accepting any other AK magazine arose. It would not be an issue internally(Yugoslavia), where locally sourced magazines would be compatible. From looking at the magazine with the side notch, obviously a weapon with the machanism intact would not allow a standard mag to fully insert & lockup.
The simple solution is to omit the mechanism. first at the depot level, then at the manufacturing level.

My.02.

I'm inclined to put alot of credibility in the company that made the weapon.

Thats one possible explanation.
 

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wildmann43 said:
From an engineering & especially a logistical standpoint, I can see an explanation for this. I am speculating based on what evidence & testimony we have:

The receiver of gun was made by milling and on its side there was a mechanism with the following function: stopping the bolt when the magazine is empty. According to this, magazine had to have the slot for contact: the magazine follower and mechanism for stopping of the bolt.
ZASTAVA
[quote:s7088wlu] [Since the Yugoslavian AK] family of weapons has a bolt stop--bolt holding open device--which works on a notch cut in the magazine, the standard AK magazines cannot be used with these guns.
ECE

Once these weapons began to be exported to other nations, the issue of not accepting any other AK magazine arose. It would not be an issue internally(Yugoslavia), where locally sourced magazines would be compatible. From looking at the magazine with the side notch, obviously a weapon with the machanism intact would not allow a standard mag to fully insert & lockup.
The simple solution is to omit the mechanism. first at the depot level, then at the manufacturing level.

My.02.

I'm inclined to put alot of credibility in the company that made the weapon.

T[/quote:s7088wlu]hats one possible explanation. But like I said, allot can get lost in translation.. Also, people that work at AK factories generally dont remember minute details from 30 years ago..
 

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I talked to some people this morning....if anyone has an example of a milled M70 to look at the BHO device it would be Dr. Atwater at the US Army Ordnance Museum, I'll have to ask next time I see him
 

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wildmann43 said:
The plot thickens......

Is that a pronounced swell on the receiver?

What about a date on the receiver.

Finally, internal pics?
Youd have to contact Templar. Its his kit, but im sure hed be willing to provide information. :smile:
 

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I also have an M64 kit like Templar's. I've attached photos of the outside & inside of the feature under discussion.

It appears to just be a mag guide "button". It is located adjacent to the front of the mag, not the back, so I don't know how it could be part of a bolt hold open device.

The kit does not have a date stamped on it. The portion of the receiver adjacent to the rear area of the magazine was not included in the kit.

It just appears that the Yugos milled out more of the steel in this front mag area probably to lighten the receiver. Then they just put this little "button" in for a mag guide on that side of the receiver.



 
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