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Discussion Starter #1
my atf rep says i cant modify or work on guns for people unless they go back to a ffl. this suks! :sad:
what do gunsmiths do? no mailing rifles to get scoped?

the atf guy says fix or repair only gets no ffl. :eek:
 

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ask him for clarification on which part of US code specifies that.

professionalism, tact and diplomacy modes engaged of course. :wink:
 

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Yup...

Basically gunsmiths have to have an FFL and have to
log in and out the guns that they take in for repair, or modification.

KyAKGuy
 

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The FFL/gunsmith should be able to mail guns back to their owners after fixing/repairing, or even modifying/customizing..sounds like the ATF agent in the OP's case said only for fixing/repairing broken guns, not for modifying a functional gun.
 

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If this is true, then I know of numerous precision rifle smiths that would be in prison for just this sort of thing.

They rebarrel, restock, and out right "modify" hundreds of guns a year (side bolt release, drill out scope rail holes larger, detachable box magazines, etc. etc. etc.) and ship 'em right back to the rightful owner without worrying about an FFL transfer.

Now in your case, with the rewelded milled kits, I can see where they'd require it since there isn't a "firearm" per federal definition coming to you, and then going back. You're getting parts and building a firearm, so I believe they're correct in your case alone.

But if someone sends a firearm they already lawfully own to a smith and they modify it for them, it's still a firearm they already lawfully owned, it just looks different. They shouldn't have to fill out more paperwork for their own gun.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
this is the case=
a guy wants to send me some h/k style parts to fit all together. he will send the receiver too. i will not be building the receiver just fitting all the parts to it.
 

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If you have a gunsmith FFL I don't see the problem, as long as the person is sending you a completed receiver, which is legally the firearm already.
 

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what phoebe--erm, barrelburner--said.

the receiver is the firearm. the firearm is already legally in his name on a 4473 somewhere. he's sending it to you for gunsmith work, and you're not manufacturing a NEW firearm.

no FFL transfer is required, and i would love to hear the outcome of your request to your atf dude for the printed regulation which says otherwise. :grin:
 

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Could it have anything to do with shipping and receiving to and from a different state? Just a question...
 

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Here is the federal law saying a FFL generally cannot ship a firearm to a non-FFL out of state..see the exemption for FFL's returning firearms to their owners

§ 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) (1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or
(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;


(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

And then there is § 922 (b)(3) which generally prohibits FFL's from sending a firearm to someone out-of-state. However, the exception in the above paragraph allows the return of a firearm to an out-of-state person who already owns it. I am posting the following for reference because it is mentioned in the above law; the preceding paragraph already states that it does not apply to FFL's returning a firearm to it's owner.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
(2) any firearm to any person in any State where the purchase or possession by such person of such firearm would be in violation of any State law or any published ordinance applicable at the place of sale, delivery or other disposition, unless the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe that the purchase or possession would not be in violation of such State law or such published ordinance;
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Nothing in the above law states that the firearm was sent to the FFL for any particular purpose such as repair or customization. It just state that the FFL is allowed to send a firearm directly back to the non-licensee who already legally owns it.

I am not a your lawyer or anyone's lawyer, so don't rely on me or anyone else on the internet for legal advice.
 
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