AK Rifles banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
its mostly in the brass ...

back in the 90s i tryed to load a lot of PERFECT ammo in other calibres and just couldnt seem to break past just plain'ole good groups UNTILL one day i read an article about match ammo and NECK THICKNESS VARIATION .

it layed out the methods for testing and talked about the reason some makers brass cost so darn much compared to WW or REM , like , NORMA and LAPUA . its extreemly difficult to manufacture brass with very tight Neck Thickness Variations . variations greater than .0003"/.0005" in neck thickness cause group size increases . it can not rightly be TURNED off to correct it , the brass has to be made with tight tolerance in this dimention .

well , in testing new WW 762x39 brass i found as much as half had NTV greater than .0005" (like stated in the article) with many of those had variations as much as .001" to .003" ! new Lapua brass only had about 15% culls with neck variation greater than .0005" and none with more than .001" variation . nowadays there is little diff in price per-thou for WW and Lapua 762x39 brass but back then you could almost get 3000 WW for the same as 1000 Lapua and then just suffer the culling losses and still end up ahead comparitively .

the NTV thing handled and , with other consistant reloading practices , its possible to surpass the generally 'good in everygun' accuracy of 762x39LAPUA ammo with quality bullets like the SIERRA 125gr .311" or even just WWs .310" FMJ (forget remingtons FMJ , yuk) and enter the realm of freekish , consistant accuracy .

freekish for an AK/SKS that is .

wish i still had the targets to show but , you wouldnt believe they were 50 shot groups anyway .

dont forget your CCI mil-spec primers .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,437 Posts
I read that you said the Chinese had higher quality ammo than the Russians do/did, that surpasses most current ammunition. How did such a poor neglected communist regeme make cases that were so perfect that a first class American company selling ammo for $10 a 20 round box CAN'T duplicate?

I don't think it is JUST the brass. If Winchester and Laupa brass is the same cost per 1,000, why is Laupa 3 times the cost of Winchester fully loaded? There has to be a special bullet/powder/primer.

I do know that brass consistancy does make a difference though, that is a fact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Q-gunner2 said:
I read that you said the Chinese had higher quality ammo than the Russians do/did, that surpasses most current ammunition. How did such a poor neglected communist regeme make cases that were so perfect that a first class American company selling ammo for $10 a 20 round box CAN'T duplicate?
what you have totaly screwed up there is from another post . this post is about Lapua 762x39 brass/ammo .

Q-gunner2 said:
I don't think it is JUST the brass. If Winchester and Laupa brass is the same cost per 1,000, why is Laupa 3 times the cost of Winchester fully loaded? There has to be a special bullet/powder/primer.
again ,
you exibit poor reading skills , a misunderstanding of history and then immediatly cut to how you feel or think about the subject which is somehow MORE VALID than measurements and tests :confused:

most ammunition information is about FACTS which are DISCOVERED not felt although , if i may , i do really , really LIKE ammo :grin: in general .

Q-gunner2 said:
I do know that brass consistancy does make a difference though, that is a fact.
well , some light at the end of the tunnel :roll:

hey bud ! listen up !
you need to drop the web board know it all routine . instead of telling us how you feel about ammo and comming off as macho to compensate for a lack of intimate knowledge , try asking some respectful 1 or 2 part questions . you mite learn a thing or two from us who have done more than just bast ammo downrange .

tomorrow or when i feel like it , i'll disassemble this ball-o-snakes you barfed up on my thread , which is off topic and not properly questions anyway , and answer all the points(?) contained there in . least anyone think i cant .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,437 Posts
I didn't mean Chinese is better than Laupa. Laupa, as I understand it, is Finnish. I meant that Chinese is better than Winchester FMJ. Yes, I know this is a different thread. But it is about accuracy. That is the link between the two threads.

Also, you said currently 1,000 Winchester brass cases are as much as 1,000 Laupa brass cases. I asked why, and said there had to be another difference if Laupa is $30 a box and Winchester is $10 a box.

Show me where I said I know everything, or where I said I know more than you, and I will apologize. You won't see it. I never said I know more than you. I am not a web commando. I did not challange you.

I said I know brass thickness and consistancy makes a difference, because I wanted you to know I agreed with you so you wouldn't get all uptight and assholish for me asking a question and trying to discuss the topic. But, that happened anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
what you did with that post was dis-avow what i was discussing and replaced tests and measurements with what you thought .

were you drinking or what :lol:

spend a little more time/effort on your posts man . once i got you to explain yourself , you dont come off as a bad guy or a troll at all but your previous few replies to my stuff were downright rude SOUNDING . now that i know more of your intent , i can interpret your MEANINGS better .

have someone else around you read your earlyer replies to me and i'm sure they'll verify what i sayin .




Also, you said currently 1,000 Winchester brass cases are as much as 1,000 Laupa brass cases. I asked why, and said there had to be another difference if Laupa is $30 a box and Winchester is $10 a box.
like in the original post , i said that 10YEARS AGO , Lapua brass was 3times the cost of WW brass . Norm brass was OUT OF THIS WORLD ! the reason was the extra control in NTV which is a FAR MORE DIFFICULT thing to control in production than the other case dimensions .

recently i found this ;

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/br ... ***9013***

so now the situation is WW brass is twice the price of 10years ago and Lapua has gone up only about 40bucks per 1000 .

i think the WW was on major closeout prices 10years ago though due to the re-importation of cheap russian ammo .



I said I know brass thickness and consistancy makes a difference
it does but the NTV thing is something nobody seems to look for and is difficult to measure properly requiring an ID rollerbearing gauge . some places even have propagada to tell you its unimportant . well , its VERY IMPORTANT . NTV should be held to at least .0005" for match brass and something less than .001" for regular loads .

the other factor in this is that makers such as WW and REM make tighter brass in other calibres but , 762x39 is like the little redheaded bastard they dont wanna talk about or spend anymore in PRODUCTION COSTS than they can get away with .

in FINLAND they have a joke that translates like , the 762x39 bullets are NO MORE than .311" thick . really , for common ammunition LAPUA exercizes no more controll than WOLF or REMCHESTER over the bullets and powder charges .

THE BIG DIFF IS THAT BRASS !!!



because I wanted you to know I agreed with you so you wouldn't get all uptight and assholish for me asking a question and trying to discuss the topic. But, that happened anyway.
i think we figured these difficulies out :grin:

grant me some room to be ASSHOLISH after years of being accused of things as useing math and other such nonsense . the web monkeys and politicos have made it impossible for me to HELP on boards .

my only purpose here is to help out , if you know more than me -- i'll kiss you or whatever it takes to get you to explain it all to me :hail:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,437 Posts
But, if you are right, and my "opinions" are based in your findings, and my opinions are wrong... then you are both right and wrong, and would have to ask yourself to kiss yourself.

Really. Winchester isn't THAT accurate. I would compare it to decent shooting Wolf. But Chinese is better than Wolf. So does this involve the Chinese steel? Steel, being harder than brass, may be able to be made more consistantly. But Wolf is steel cased also. So did the Chinese make the casings a different way? Different bullet design, better primers, better powder measure? What?

Yoda, I think you are an asshole, and a great man. We both jump to conclusions. I come off as an asshole, and so do you. So I guess this will work out. We will just argue things out every once and awhile and then everything will be fine. :mrgreen:

I don't drink, I have diabetes and 99.99999999999999999999% of all alcaholic drinks have a lot of sugar in them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
speak of the devil and guess who pops up ?

found a stash of LAPUA in an out of the way spot ! finally , after all these years since i shot up a whole case of it , reloaded the brass once and then gave it away , i have some to test and the s.405 bullets for the collection .

pics comming eventully :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
719 Posts
Beautiful ammo, this is my sole remaining box. If I only knew then what I know now......... :sad:


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
621 Posts
Q-gunner2 said:
But, if you are right, and my "opinions" are based in your findings, and my opinions are wrong... then you are both right and wrong, and would have to ask yourself to kiss yourself.
man you just confused the hell out of me!!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,287 Posts
simple answer would be, because it's FINN thats why! :grin:

Their quality control is superb.

I absolutely loved shooting this ammo and as already said, would have bought tons more at the time I scored what I did. Now only the one box left in the collection.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top