[The_Shootist]

I take it that the Wolf FMJ type ammo is good for plinking - but what if you had to use your AK for self-defense work (I'm thinking the upcoming Hurrican season). Is there a more suitable type of ammo to be used?

I'm primarily a handgunner and consequently have to be a bit more careful in ammo selection for effective SD use. I'm wondering if thats true with the AK or will pretty much any type do.

 

[Templar]

I take it you're talking 7.62x39mm?

If so, the best loads for defense are going to be the commercial hunting loads that Federal, Winchester, and Remington sell. 123 grain jacket softpoints. You're talking about the same power as a .30/30 here.

Downside...........it's expensive stuff and some AK's don't like to feed it so well. Most will though.

Barnaul 123 gr. SP and Wolf 154 gr. SP is about the only Russian stuff that I know of that reliably expands, and it's much less expensive than the US commercial stuff.

The Yugoslavian M67 ball is the best stuff for SHTF....the lead core copper jacketed flat base bullet tends to upset in flesh fairly consistently. Yugoslavian stuff is corrosive though, so clean accordingly.

Most Russian and Chinese ammo uses a steel jacket over a lead core with a boat tail. Very stable design that doesn't upset very easily.

But, barring all that, if all you have is Wolf FMJ, it's ultimately hits that count, so as GreenTimber posted in another thread, it's training, shot placement, and agression (willingness to use force if necessary) that will get you through something like that.

 

[MauserMark]

on another note are the 5.45x39 HP's pretty worthless? They don't seem like they would in any way really affect the damage done inside.

 

[Templar]

on another note are the 5.45x39 HP's pretty worthless? They don't seem like they would in any way really affect the damage done inside.

I personally haven't used any, but I've heard that they aren't very accurate in many rifles and have caused feeding issues in some.

I'd avoid them except as blasting ammo.

 

[GreatWarAZ]

on another note are the 5.45x39 HP's pretty worthless? They don't seem like they would in any way really affect the damage done inside.

I personally haven't used any, but I've heard that they aren't very accurate in many rifles and have caused feeding issues in some.

I'd avoid them except as blasting ammo.

Agreed. I would just stick with the FMJ unless you really "need" HP's.

-GreatWarAZ

 

[Tooly]

In the SHTF forum , guys are saying go with HP's
I don't get it ?

Tim what's the real deal ? :hail:

 

[Templar]

Tim what's the real deal ? :hail:

Go with what you have. Shot placement. Hesitation kills.

If your rifle does fine with HP's go for it, but the majority of Russian HP doesn't expand or break up consistently.

I have heard that the Uly hollow point does. If so, I sure as hell don't want to be in front of it.

 

[Ron In PA]

The experts seem to recommend the following ammo for self defense:

Lapua
Winchester SP
Uly HP

I have not found any Lapua but have some Winchester SP and Uly HP ammo (not a lot). I also have a case of Yugo M67 ammo for SHTF ammo. I have a bunch of other ammo for practice and blasting (Wolf FMJ and HP, Russian FMJ and HP, Port, South African, Chinese FMJ and SP, etc).

Find ammo you can get readily, practice with it and make sure it is reliable in your gun. A hit with any rifle round is usually better than a hit with the best handgun bullet.

:twisted:

Ron

 

[MauserMark]

My concern was that the HP might actually cause less damage than a well designed FMJ (5.45 of course). I would guess it would expand a little and thus prevent further penetration and tumbling that the bullet depends on to be more effective. And yes, the only feeding problems I've ever had in my 74 was with Wolf HP... :neutral:

 

[No1Here]

My concern was that the HP might actually cause less damage than a well designed FMJ (5.45 of course). I would guess it would expand a little and thus prevent further penetration and tumbling that the bullet depends on to be more effective. And yes, the only feeding problems I've ever had in my 74 was with Wolf HP... :neutral:

Never tried the Wolf 5.45mm HP but didn't have any problems using the Dynamit Nobel brand of 5.45mm HP. I just use FMJ 5.45mm though.
5.45mm was designed well for its purpose and I don't see how making a HP verison would help.

 

[Guest]

DELETED

 

[JOHNO]

I've seen what a 7.62x39 FMJ can do,its more than adequate for any survival type scenario I can think of.It'll stop a car,buck brush,bust concrete blocks.............................

 

[Lollygagger]

Here (minor rant):

Recommending HP for any "SHTF" scenario is basically DUMB!

Why? Because most AK weapons were NOT designed for HP (or SP) use -there are feed & reliability issues. You really, realy want to experience these in a SHTF scenario when folks are try to kill you? I think NOT!

IF you have throated/chamfered/polished your AK's chamber and tested it -maybe.

And! Commercial ammo is NOT milspec ammo -I've seen some weapons with excessive headspace, that people never knew about, eat milspec steel case ammo all day long...and have BRASS commercial JAM every time!

Point: Dance with who brung ya'...practice with ammo you would actually find acceptable to defend yourself.

Lollygagger :neutral: (end of mini-rant)

 

[Lollygagger]

My concern was that the HP might actually cause less damage than a well designed FMJ (5.45 of course). I would guess it would expand a little and thus prevent further penetration and tumbling that the bullet depends on to be more effective. And yes, the only feeding problems I've ever had in my 74 was with Wolf HP... :neutral:

Never tried the Wolf 5.45mm HP but didn't have any problems using the Dynamit Nobel brand of 5.45mm HP. I just use FMJ 5.45mm though.
5.45mm was designed well for its purpose and I don't see how making a HP verison would help.

I don't see any real point of a 5.45x39mm HP...other than to be hunting legal some places. It has a air space at the front of the jacket, and, has a very intentional radical ogive -lending to bullet upset on impact.
As a HP, it would not really enhance it's performance, but would degrade the reliability of feed.

I've tested the 5.45x39mm FMJ against the 7.62x39mm FMJ because of some of the things I've heard. One was that the 5.45 out pentrated the other -IT DOES (but degrades rapidly with the angle of deflection compared to the 7.62x39mm).

Lollygagger :wink:

 

[Lollygagger]

FWIW, here is another old steel plate penetration test I did comparing 5.45x39mm & 5.56 (.223):

You can see that in raw penetration the 5.45 (#1-3) was less effective than the .223 (#4-7). Kind of makes a guy start to take a little more note of the 5.56 round, don't it? :neutral:

Lollygagger :smile:

 

[Xenogy]

I read that Wolf 5.45 HP seems to penetrate better through barriers. Instead of yawing it seemed to completely shed the HP jacket and the lead core would continue straight. For SHTF I would stick to the 5.45 FMJ in the Wolf brand. The yawing would seem to perform much better than Wolf's hollow points which have a history of poor expansion if any.

I would choose FMJ over other brands of SP and HP in 5.45. I would be more concerned with the SP and HP underpenetrating past 100 yards.
Also two holes are better than one, especially when the 5.45 comes out the back sideways allowing more blood out. Also they have two wounds to tend to.

 

[FreeRangeYODA]

some reported feed issues with the 545x39 SPs 'cuz the bullet is MUCH SHORTER than normal .

the Wolf and G-Tiger 762x39HPBTs and the Wolf and Barnaul 545x39 HPBTs are basicly tubes , open at both ends , with a lead cylinder inside . several cores per thousand will be factory loose and a few more will loosen with temp extreems and ruff handling . this dont matter with the FMJ versions of this large airspace-tip ammo . the core is SUPPOSED to shift and does so on firing (about 4mm give or take) and asymetricly at impact . however , a handful per thousand of those HPBTs will suck water (vent) . you run the real risk of a squib lodging a bullet in the bore IN A SHTF SITUATION with this ammo out in the S .

so dont keep THOSE for SHTF if you can help it . shoot it up . its perfectly fine for everything else , hunting , training , target practice . keep it in cans untill use .

the old plastic insert HPBT style bullet in 762x39 Ulyanovsk ammo w/headstamp # dates too 97 and , Klimovsk ammo with headstamp dates too 99 dont have this problem . niether does the newer Uly 8M3 HP which has a severe heel crimp against the core pushing against the full nose radius .