A lot of rifles came like this from Israel.
Vz 24 Mauser questions...
I got a very good deal on a 8mm Vz 24 Mauser (only reason I could afford it!) and need to know some things about it...
First, history:
1. I only see a serial number on the bolt handle and receiver. They match. There is a huge "LO" mark on the barrel shank. There are tiny stampings- what I assume are the Czech lion- on the barrel and receiver. Also, on the barrel, there is a "HK" or "HN" in a circle. The serial number is "395x" and has an "M" under it (on both the receiver, and bolt handle).
2. The receiver is marked with the "Czechoslovakia" marking saying that it is a Czech rifle from BRNO (in Czech). The trigger guard is the "winter" style with the enlarged front area and it is a bent bolt rifle. Also, there is no handguard cutout in the stock (no finger groves). The bolt assembly is blued.
3. The crest... was scrubbed. Why/who would do this? It is completely gone and smoothed out, and there is a brownish blued finish over where it used to be.
4. The rifle has no import marks anywhere on it.
5. The bluing besides the removed crest area is beautiful, deep and rich. The barrel is absolutely PERFECT, crown included... I was amazed when I saw it. The action is Mauser smooth.
Basically... does anyone know who would scrub the crest, or why? The rifle has no import marks on the barrel or receiver. It hasn't been sporterized either. Does anyone know the history of this rifle, or at least, can anyone hazard a guess?
Thank you all in advance! :smile:
First, history:
1. I only see a serial number on the bolt handle and receiver. They match. There is a huge "LO" mark on the barrel shank. There are tiny stampings- what I assume are the Czech lion- on the barrel and receiver. Also, on the barrel, there is a "HK" or "HN" in a circle. The serial number is "395x" and has an "M" under it (on both the receiver, and bolt handle).
2. The receiver is marked with the "Czechoslovakia" marking saying that it is a Czech rifle from BRNO (in Czech). The trigger guard is the "winter" style with the enlarged front area and it is a bent bolt rifle. Also, there is no handguard cutout in the stock (no finger groves). The bolt assembly is blued.
3. The crest... was scrubbed. Why/who would do this? It is completely gone and smoothed out, and there is a brownish blued finish over where it used to be.
4. The rifle has no import marks anywhere on it.
5. The bluing besides the removed crest area is beautiful, deep and rich. The barrel is absolutely PERFECT, crown included... I was amazed when I saw it. The action is Mauser smooth.
Basically... does anyone know who would scrub the crest, or why? The rifle has no import marks on the barrel or receiver. It hasn't been sporterized either. Does anyone know the history of this rifle, or at least, can anyone hazard a guess?
Thank you all in advance! :smile:
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Q, what you have there is not a VZ24, but a 98k made by the Czechs after WWII with leftover parts from the Brno factory. While under ocupation from the Germans, the code on the receiver would have been DOT. The triggerguard is a one piece deal introduced by the Czechs so soldiers could use the rifle with gloves on.
Most collectors think these rifles were produced as a stop gap measure until they could tool up their own designed Mauser again. Some were sold or "loaned" out to other countries for the great struggle against the west, or put into storage for use by 3rd line troops, and home guard units.
HK is an Army property mark, and any small "Rampant Lion" stamps are for inspection purposes.
The small hole in the buttplate is for field stripping the bolt. I"m wondering if your rifle will accept the 12 1/2" cleaning rod, or if its a late pattern "Kreigsmodel" stock?
8mm surplus ammo has dried up a bit, but good stuff can still be found. The two best I have used are Yugoslavian produced 1970s packed on stripper clips, or Portugese 8mm if you can find it. Yugo made stuff from the 50s is hit or miss, and some lots have VERY hard primers. Some of the 50s stuff is ok, but some sucks for accuracy. A heavy Wolff spring usually helps the hard primer issue.
If you want to get interesting, I know a guy in PA that imports Zrak scopes and mounts, and for under $500 you can get a correct sniper scope with a range finding reticle and with the help of a good gunsmith, you can build a nice representation sniper rifle that was used during the Yugoslavian War in the 90s.
If you go that route, get some quality 8mm ammo and see how the rifle groups at 100, and 200m. Some of these rifles will surprise you when their in good working order, and you do your part.
I"ve been collecting Mausers for years, but never got around to getting that one yet. Awesome find!
Most collectors think these rifles were produced as a stop gap measure until they could tool up their own designed Mauser again. Some were sold or "loaned" out to other countries for the great struggle against the west, or put into storage for use by 3rd line troops, and home guard units.
HK is an Army property mark, and any small "Rampant Lion" stamps are for inspection purposes.
The small hole in the buttplate is for field stripping the bolt. I"m wondering if your rifle will accept the 12 1/2" cleaning rod, or if its a late pattern "Kreigsmodel" stock?
8mm surplus ammo has dried up a bit, but good stuff can still be found. The two best I have used are Yugoslavian produced 1970s packed on stripper clips, or Portugese 8mm if you can find it. Yugo made stuff from the 50s is hit or miss, and some lots have VERY hard primers. Some of the 50s stuff is ok, but some sucks for accuracy. A heavy Wolff spring usually helps the hard primer issue.
If you want to get interesting, I know a guy in PA that imports Zrak scopes and mounts, and for under $500 you can get a correct sniper scope with a range finding reticle and with the help of a good gunsmith, you can build a nice representation sniper rifle that was used during the Yugoslavian War in the 90s.
If you go that route, get some quality 8mm ammo and see how the rifle groups at 100, and 200m. Some of these rifles will surprise you when their in good working order, and you do your part.
I"ve been collecting Mausers for years, but never got around to getting that one yet. Awesome find!
8mm ammo:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Yugo ... Grade.html
Or:
http://www.classicarms.us/index.html
I think the Classic Arms stuff is 1970s since its in green boxes. 50s Yugo is in grey boxes. I"d call and check though.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Yugo ... Grade.html
Or:
http://www.classicarms.us/index.html
I think the Classic Arms stuff is 1970s since its in green boxes. 50s Yugo is in grey boxes. I"d call and check though.
It is damn near exactly like armakrauts rifle. I just need the sight hood. What IS the correct cleaning rod for it? And where can I get a proper sling and sight hood?
The numbers match, and the barrel is exc, so I'm happy. I know ammo is going to be a female dog, but I don't plan to shoot the Mauser that much. I'll buy when I can find a good deal, otherwise, I'll go off of what I have. I do not want to make a fake sniper out of it, the rifle has history as it is; and I am a fan of iron sights myself (blame the CMP on that one).
Thank you for the historical information! Any way to find out where it went if it was surplussed to another country (IE Israel)?
The numbers match, and the barrel is exc, so I'm happy. I know ammo is going to be a female dog, but I don't plan to shoot the Mauser that much. I'll buy when I can find a good deal, otherwise, I'll go off of what I have. I do not want to make a fake sniper out of it, the rifle has history as it is; and I am a fan of iron sights myself (blame the CMP on that one).
Thank you for the historical information! Any way to find out where it went if it was surplussed to another country (IE Israel)?
Scopes:
Go with the ON-76 4x model, as it would be "correct" for a Mauser. The scale should be graduated for 1.5m, or 1.75m, NOT 1m...that reticle is for hunting.
If you go this route, will you post a pic of you standing in the backyard with rifle, and papers??? :lol:
Go with the ON-76 4x model, as it would be "correct" for a Mauser. The scale should be graduated for 1.5m, or 1.75m, NOT 1m...that reticle is for hunting.
If you go this route, will you post a pic of you standing in the backyard with rifle, and papers??? :lol:
I doubt it went to Israel, they usually marked their weapons with the Star of David, and most were converted to 7.62 and put into storage untill they were released on the world market.
Look on ebay for slings, but don"t waste money on German WWII ones, get a good Austrian post war one, some are still in excellent and usable shape. Sight hoods can be found there as well, beware the "original ones", get a post war one, the thicker the metal, the better.
You will need a set of reverse pliers to get the sight hood on though.
Cleaning rods can be a bitch...most copies are too thick to fit correctly, and you would not believe what people will pay for real German ones.
I understand about leaving the rifle as is, and am glad your doing so.
Look on ebay for slings, but don"t waste money on German WWII ones, get a good Austrian post war one, some are still in excellent and usable shape. Sight hoods can be found there as well, beware the "original ones", get a post war one, the thicker the metal, the better.
You will need a set of reverse pliers to get the sight hood on though.
Cleaning rods can be a bitch...most copies are too thick to fit correctly, and you would not believe what people will pay for real German ones.
I understand about leaving the rifle as is, and am glad your doing so.
No, what I meant was, I'm NOT going to scope the rifle. I don't like having it scoped unless it is specifically a long range (I.E., 600 plus) only gun or if it has a scope in its correct, made by the factory form (I.E., PSL).
However... do you know where I could find the final few parts?
As far as the picture with the papers... wrong thread, that'd be a cheap Japanese made 4x. :razz:
However... do you know where I could find the final few parts?
As far as the picture with the papers... wrong thread, that'd be a cheap Japanese made 4x. :razz:
Original cleaning rods seem to be plentiful... I don't want a German one, rather, just a Czech Vz. 24 one. Same with the sight hood and sling. Czechoslovakia it is. I understand the Czech slings are unobtanium, which means I'll have to wait, but any word on the sight hoods or proper cleaning rods? I've seen a few on GB, but need to know if they are the correct type for a Czech.
Original cleaning rods seem to be plentiful... I don't want a German one, rather, just a Czech Vz. 24 one. Same with the sight hood and sling. Czechoslovakia it is. I understand the Czech slings are unobtanium, which means I'll have to wait, but any word on the sight hoods or proper cleaning rods? I've seen a few on GB, but need to know if they are the correct type for a Czech.
A VZ24 cleaning rod might fit, but I think they are thicker, and are threaded different than the 98k. Like you said, a real CZ sling is impossible to find at best, thats why I suggested Austrian. As far as sight hoods go, I can"t point to a single place that carries originals in stock.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-FRONT-SIGH ... 18Q2el1247
Notice how thick the metal is on this. German? Czech? Austrian? Its almost impossible to tell, but I will say its a "proper" one due to the heavy construction. Most repros are made with thinner steel, are easy to bend with your fingers, and will pop off very easily.
Cleaning kits for Czech stuff are all over the map and are either the cheap produced ones that are standered for M48 Mausers, or reissued German ones. The Czechs reissued lots of German equipment, slings, zeltbahns, weapons parts for Mausers ect, and as late as the 1970s some of their Paras still used the MP44 rifle. Here is a good German cleaning kit that would be a good choice:
http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php ... cts_id/354
its missing the bore brush, but those can be found...I have several.
This type of sling would be correct for use with your rifle. Although it looks German, its not adjustable like one. It would be correct, as an original German would be:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Yugo-Leather-Mauser ... dZViewItem
Sorry about all the epay links, but it can be an excellent source for good pics of original gear if you know what your looking at.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-FRONT-SIGH ... 18Q2el1247
Notice how thick the metal is on this. German? Czech? Austrian? Its almost impossible to tell, but I will say its a "proper" one due to the heavy construction. Most repros are made with thinner steel, are easy to bend with your fingers, and will pop off very easily.
Cleaning kits for Czech stuff are all over the map and are either the cheap produced ones that are standered for M48 Mausers, or reissued German ones. The Czechs reissued lots of German equipment, slings, zeltbahns, weapons parts for Mausers ect, and as late as the 1970s some of their Paras still used the MP44 rifle. Here is a good German cleaning kit that would be a good choice:
http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php ... cts_id/354
its missing the bore brush, but those can be found...I have several.
This type of sling would be correct for use with your rifle. Although it looks German, its not adjustable like one. It would be correct, as an original German would be:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Yugo-Leather-Mauser ... dZViewItem
Sorry about all the epay links, but it can be an excellent source for good pics of original gear if you know what your looking at.
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
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