How many times have I done told you?????
:rant:
:wink:
:rant:
:wink:
The real info on Arsenal's finishes
I've posted several times that I believe the finish on my SLR107FR must be the same as my SA M7's because it seems a lot tougher than the finish that people have derisively referred to as "squid ink". I've used Hornady's One Shot on my SLR107FR a couple of times with no problems. Since installing a Saiga receiver cover on my 107 to duplicate the AK-103 look, I'd swear the receiver cover is "scuffing" in spots faster than the rest of the rifle.
Well, I couldn't stand it any longer.
I called Arsenal and talked to Julia. I asked her directly if the SLR107FR's are being refinished with the same paint as the SA M7's after being "unbanned."
She said, "No." She added that the SA M7's are powder coated over phosphate, but that the Bulgarian rifles (i.e. stamped guns) are still being painted with the plain ol' everyday Bulgarian military paint.
I explained to her that I had used Hornady's One Shot with no problems. Her reply was that they still only approve Break Free for use on the Bulgarian stamped rifles, and that they would not warranty damage to the finish from other chemicals.
So I guess that's that. :neutral:
Well, I couldn't stand it any longer.
I called Arsenal and talked to Julia. I asked her directly if the SLR107FR's are being refinished with the same paint as the SA M7's after being "unbanned."
She said, "No." She added that the SA M7's are powder coated over phosphate, but that the Bulgarian rifles (i.e. stamped guns) are still being painted with the plain ol' everyday Bulgarian military paint.
I explained to her that I had used Hornady's One Shot with no problems. Her reply was that they still only approve Break Free for use on the Bulgarian stamped rifles, and that they would not warranty damage to the finish from other chemicals.
So I guess that's that. :neutral:
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Lesseee, 11,000,000,000,000 times? :grin:
Sorry. I wanted to give Arsenal credit for something good for a change.
I just haven't experienced the grief that people have with the finish on their stamped guns. I'm very happy with mine. When I see pics posted of guns with half the paint eaten off I'm thinking, "My finish seems a lot tougher than that."
I thought they might be refinishing the 107's after unbanning them. :neutral:
Sorry. I wanted to give Arsenal credit for something good for a change.
I just haven't experienced the grief that people have with the finish on their stamped guns. I'm very happy with mine. When I see pics posted of guns with half the paint eaten off I'm thinking, "My finish seems a lot tougher than that."
I thought they might be refinishing the 107's after unbanning them. :neutral:
Good indicators for bad paint....
Find a spot under the barrel. Use a nice white gun patch for each test...
1) Denatured Alcohol... get any black on the rag? Original finish Tantal's often fail here - Arsenals should be fine.
2) Acetone... NEW style Bulgarian paint (as used on the 105 & 106), and Russian paint will fail here. So do most rattle can US paints.
3) ZSTRIP... OLD style Bulgarian paint will fail here.
Original Hungarian and MADDI paint will sail thru all of this without blinking. God knows why - they look terrible
GunKote & MolyResin laugh at these tests... haven't tried Duracoat yet.
Find a spot under the barrel. Use a nice white gun patch for each test...
1) Denatured Alcohol... get any black on the rag? Original finish Tantal's often fail here - Arsenals should be fine.
2) Acetone... NEW style Bulgarian paint (as used on the 105 & 106), and Russian paint will fail here. So do most rattle can US paints.
3) ZSTRIP... OLD style Bulgarian paint will fail here.
Original Hungarian and MADDI paint will sail thru all of this without blinking. God knows why - they look terrible
GunKote & MolyResin laugh at these tests... haven't tried Duracoat yet.
any one else feel like the finish on thier 105 is far better than that on the 106 or 07 series?
Not even close IMO. The finish on my 106 > my 105.Just_Parker said:any one else feel like the finish on thier 105 is far better than that on the 106 or 07 series?
My new SLR107F is probably finished in "squid ink", when I first brought it home I layed in a quantity of lapping compound on all the moving parts and cycled the action about 150-200 times or until I got tired. Disassembed the action, went out into the shop and sprayed carb cleaner at the bolt and operating rod to clean off the compound, I was dismayed to watch all the pretty black finish roll off like a Singapore whore. I continued cleaning said pieces and blew off with compressed air, I clean all my weapons this way often and have never had one bleed paint before. Mark Graham's Romy cleaned up great and his finish does not bleed off. The rest of the Arsenal rifle is finished in the same crap and if the damn thing didn't shoot as good as it does I would really be upset, I'll just have to be careful and not get anything tougher than Hoppes #9 on the finish.
At the risk of sounding ignorant, is the SAM7 powder-coat-over-phosphate-finish significanlty better? Or is it just a marginal improvement?
It's one of the nicest working finishes on a military style firearm, period.Newaza said:At the risk of sounding ignorant, is the SAM7 powder-coat-over-phosphate-finish significanlty better? Or is it just a marginal improvement?
Does anyone know of a vendor who offers powder coat over phosphate as an aftermarket refinish option? I would love to have that finish on my working AKs.Templar said:It's one of the nicest working finishes on a military style firearm, period.Newaza said:At the risk of sounding ignorant, is the SAM7 powder-coat-over-phosphate-finish significanlty better? Or is it just a marginal improvement?
Is it better than the other finishes I read about, such as Gunkote and Duracoate?Templar said:It's one of the nicest working finishes on a military style firearm, period.Newaza said:At the risk of sounding ignorant, is the SAM7 powder-coat-over-phosphate-finish significanlty better? Or is it just a marginal improvement?
Templar said:It's one of the nicest working finishes on a military style firearm, period.Newaza said:At the risk of sounding ignorant, is the SAM7 powder-coat-over-phosphate-finish significanlty better? Or is it just a marginal improvement?
I'd have to agree. It's more like the finish on a car. You have to really put forth some effort to damage the finish on a milled Arsenal rifle.
Seriously? I wouldn't do that to any firearm.Fearless 51 said:My new SLR107F is probably finished in "squid ink", when I first brought it home I layed in a quantity of lapping compound on all the moving parts and cycled the action about 150-200 times or until I got tired. Disassembed the action, went out into the shop and sprayed carb cleaner at the bolt and operating rod to clean off the compound, I was dismayed to watch all the pretty black finish roll off like a Singapore whore. I continued cleaning said pieces and blew off with compressed air, I clean all my weapons this way often and have never had one bleed paint before. Mark Graham's Romy cleaned up great and his finish does not bleed off. The rest of the Arsenal rifle is finished in the same crap and if the damn thing didn't shoot as good as it does I would really be upset, I'll just have to be careful and not get anything tougher than Hoppes #9 on the finish.
I think the 107 is much better than the 105 actually.Just_Parker said:any one else feel like the finish on thier 105 is far better than that on the 106 or 07 series?
Before I had the 105 refinished in GunKote, it had the squid ink, but my new 107UR is much nicer out of the box than the 105 was for sure.
Z
Julia is incorrect. It's not powder coat. It's ENAMEL over a parkerized base, and it DOES chip off. I have had a dozen milled Arsenals, and the enamel isn't that great either. Chipping the enamel on the barrel is quite easy by sliding the lower handguard retainer, as well as, the selector lever, and gas tube lever. Some may be wondering how I know that it's baked on enamel? Because that's what it is, the texture, the thickness, compared to powder coat, and the durability isn't the same as powder coat. Also, Arsenal told me that it was baked on enamel, and it's been covered in several magazine articles stating the fact.
The Bulgarian paint is LOUSY. That we can all agree on, and it doesn't matter what that crap has been applied too. Whether a 105,106,107, etc. Also, in reference to the enamel/powder coat. I would advise some of you to look at an HK, and compare it to a SAM-7. The HK's were powder coated ('91/94's/SP89's, Etc). Powder coat is a strong, durable finish, that is hard to scratch down to bare metal. Surface scratching with use, isn't. HK's make great candidates for powder coating, whereas, an AK doesn't. A friend of mine had it done once to an RPK, and I would advise against it. It was too thick of a finish. His safety lever wouldn't work properly. Since there really isn't much on an HK, that type of finish is fine. I cannot think of any other firearms, other than some HK's, that have been powder coated**. (Actually, I have seen some lime green and pink GLOCK slide's that had been) Also, baked on enamel over parkerizing was used by IMI on their GALIL's, UZI's, FALS, as well as, imported Belgium produced FAL's*, to name a few. But another problem with the Arsenal SAM-7's is, not every part is finished the same. The carrier's, bolts, recoil spring's, cleaning rod's, gas tube's, stock screws, rear grip screw is still the el-cheapo Bulgarian paint on a SAM-7, whereas, the rest is baked on enamel over parkerizing. Perhaps it now sounds better for Arsenal to say that their rifle's are powder coated?? Also, to the person who asked about GUNKOTE and Duracoat. GUNKOTE IMHO is far better than Duracoat. GUNKOTE also holds up 10X better than baked on enamel. It's a far superior finish to what Arsenal uses on any of their rifle's.... All my Arsenal rifle's are refinished in Gunkote over a parkerized base. Personally, I wouldn't want it any other way.
*= Some were imported blued. I've seen a few.
**= My PTR-91 was powder coated. When JLD owned the company, the powder coating was done by another company out of state. I don't know how the new one's are finished, as JLD sold out to another entity. For some who don't know, the PTR-91 is a US made clone of an H&K91/G3. I have owned a number of H&K 91's, SP89's, 94's, ETC. Those guns as well as the JLD PTR-91 were powder coated. NONE of my milled Arsenal rifle's were powder coated. It's a VERY SIMPLE thing to damage the finish on an Arsenal milled rifle. It doesn't take that much effort in the least. Move the lower hanguard bracket up and down the barrel a few time's and see.
The Bulgarian paint is LOUSY. That we can all agree on, and it doesn't matter what that crap has been applied too. Whether a 105,106,107, etc. Also, in reference to the enamel/powder coat. I would advise some of you to look at an HK, and compare it to a SAM-7. The HK's were powder coated ('91/94's/SP89's, Etc). Powder coat is a strong, durable finish, that is hard to scratch down to bare metal. Surface scratching with use, isn't. HK's make great candidates for powder coating, whereas, an AK doesn't. A friend of mine had it done once to an RPK, and I would advise against it. It was too thick of a finish. His safety lever wouldn't work properly. Since there really isn't much on an HK, that type of finish is fine. I cannot think of any other firearms, other than some HK's, that have been powder coated**. (Actually, I have seen some lime green and pink GLOCK slide's that had been) Also, baked on enamel over parkerizing was used by IMI on their GALIL's, UZI's, FALS, as well as, imported Belgium produced FAL's*, to name a few. But another problem with the Arsenal SAM-7's is, not every part is finished the same. The carrier's, bolts, recoil spring's, cleaning rod's, gas tube's, stock screws, rear grip screw is still the el-cheapo Bulgarian paint on a SAM-7, whereas, the rest is baked on enamel over parkerizing. Perhaps it now sounds better for Arsenal to say that their rifle's are powder coated?? Also, to the person who asked about GUNKOTE and Duracoat. GUNKOTE IMHO is far better than Duracoat. GUNKOTE also holds up 10X better than baked on enamel. It's a far superior finish to what Arsenal uses on any of their rifle's.... All my Arsenal rifle's are refinished in Gunkote over a parkerized base. Personally, I wouldn't want it any other way.
*= Some were imported blued. I've seen a few.
**= My PTR-91 was powder coated. When JLD owned the company, the powder coating was done by another company out of state. I don't know how the new one's are finished, as JLD sold out to another entity. For some who don't know, the PTR-91 is a US made clone of an H&K91/G3. I have owned a number of H&K 91's, SP89's, 94's, ETC. Those guns as well as the JLD PTR-91 were powder coated. NONE of my milled Arsenal rifle's were powder coated. It's a VERY SIMPLE thing to damage the finish on an Arsenal milled rifle. It doesn't take that much effort in the least. Move the lower hanguard bracket up and down the barrel a few time's and see.
Finish on my 105 is terrible, so much so that I wished the Romanians had finished it instead. papa
What is ZSTRIP? I did a search and couldn't find it.Trotsky said:3) ZSTRIP... OLD style Bulgarian paint will fail here.
Don't know about ZStrip, but I have used ZIP STRIP...
Lionhart, I always assumed it was enamel over park, but in my conversations with the president of Arsenal, back when I worked behind a gun counter, he stated it was a powder coat.
Either way, machts nichts.
Either way, machts nichts.
Why Arsenal claims it's powder coat to some, and baked on enamel to other's is a mystery to me. I have had a number of parts powder coated, and as mentioned, had a number of powder coated firearms at one time or another, and even Arsenal told me that it was baked on enamel. In fact, several years ago, I bought a NIB SAM-7, that had it's magazine catch flip out. The rivet wasn't staked into place, and it scratched the side of the trigger guard. When Arsenal received that rifle in for repair, they called me, and asked if I wanted them to refinish the gun at their expense. I said the finish appeared to be baked on enamel, and he said that it was. The finish was also covered in a Shotgun News article covering the Arsenal milled AK's. I don't recall the issue number, but it had a red cover, with an Arsenal milled underfolder on it. There too, it stated that they all had a baked on enamel finish, over a parkerized base.
In any event, I suppose it doesn't matter. I just wished that they would start using something better like GUNKOTE. It add's quite a bit of expense getting these rifle's redone after I buy them.
In any event, I suppose it doesn't matter. I just wished that they would start using something better like GUNKOTE. It add's quite a bit of expense getting these rifle's redone after I buy them.
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
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