[Zane Zackerly]

BEGIN TRANSMISSION

Dateline: Right Now
Event: SHTF scenario 'Citizen soldier counterterrorist'
File: Civilian-obtainable gear for SHTF scenario
Purpose: Everybody gets new ideas

List:
Arsenal AK in 7.62x39 for reliability/durability under primitive conditions
Bulgarian Circle 10 polymer mags for light weight
Glock 17 pistol for ammunition availability and reliability/durability of gun
Chinese PVC three-mag pouch for light weight and durability (outlasted a real Russian vest I had)
Original SWAT boots, side zip paratrooper high-top style
Original surplus military woodland camo ripstop
1960's web belt with y-harness and web pouches
plastic quart canteens
military surplus ALICE pack with or without frame
military surplus mummy type sleeping bag
KA-BAR knife
snake charmer .410 shotgun in backpack

Response: Flame Away

(I know my list is full of "less than adequate" choices. Your mission should you decide to accept it is to give us your list of what's "better"). :grin:

END OF TRANSMISSION

 

[cfish]

You forgot shoulder launched Surface to air missle. :grin:
J/K!!!! I like the polymer mag Idea for light weight. My son and I were re arranging the garage last weekend and when I picked up a pouch with 4 empty steel Ak mags then picked up a pouch with 4 fully loaded Ar mags It was shocking to actually hold the two at the same time. The 4 empty Ak mags were almost as heavy as the 4 loaded ar mags. Eye opener. Especially when you aren't getting younger. I guess thats what sons are for.

 

[joedog]

I like it, BUT...

As much as I like the Kabar (i've got one), they're too dang big. I prefer the SOG Seal Pup for my kit. I like the ones with the nylon sheath that has a pouch for a multi-tool, which is another essential I'd want to have. And a couple of good LED lights, a headlamp with a red light option as well as white light, and a good handheld light. You also need a blowout kit and some basic first aid, a good compass and topos of your AO, unless you are sticking to your own land.

I love my Original Swat boots. They are some of the most comfortable boots I have ever worn, although I go with the straight lace ups.

Carry on!

joedog

 

[Tinker]

Definitely not any younger here. Definitely far FAR removed from a perfect SHTF soldier. I'll be lucky not to pop a blood vessel in my head when the SHTF. It goes to show that you can have all the guns and food and sweet gear in the world, if the body fails you, you're fucked anyway.

 

[MPiKM-72]

Assuming you will be on foot, I don't really see any bad choices in your gear, but agree with joedog on the knife choice being smaller. :smile: If I had to have a large knife I'd prefer an AK bayonet over the K-Bar. I think its more useful for prying, etc., then have a sharp folder for other tasks.

I personally would prefer a lightweight .22lr rifle instead of the snakecharmer, just because I can carry more ammo.

Sounds like the Pecos Run and Gun might be up your alley for testing your set up. 5-7 miles in the desert in August. It's only 1.5 hours from Carlsbad, NM. I ride over 8 hours to participate. :wink:

 

[JoeMomma]

I"ll play along...

I would not choose boots with a zipper, they have a greater chance for blowing out. I have at least ten pairs of boots to choose from that are well broken in. Some are lightweight and not good for heavy loads, some are more for winter/wet...it would just depend.
Unless forced by freezing temperatures, your better off with a "woobie" tied inside a GI issue poncho.

Minimum of seven mags for the rifle, unless your using a battle rifle like a 30.06, or .308, then go to five or six with a bandoleer or two.

Don"t forget gloves, personal med kit, and a small flashlight.

Uniform would depend on where you live, and what works best. Plain old OD green, BDUs, or gucciflauge like Multicam. I really like the Multicam, and it works great where I live.

Pistol plus two mags, I"d personally go with an M9...I"ve used it more than any other pistol, and I"m comfortable with it.

Headgear...I still have my MICH, as well as a standard old school kevlar. Situation would dictate hard brain bucket, or boonie type headcover. Don"t forget a "doo rag" to catch sweat. I like the lightweight moisture wicking ones from Spec Ops. Many of us wore these in the desert...they work great.

Eye protection....self explanatory. A good all around chice is amber. You can use them at night if there is ambiant light, and they work well in the day.

Two knifes...one folding, one large. I like the Spydeco Military for the folder, and have become a fan of the Glock field knife.

Multi tool. Many uses, very handy.

Pant suspenders. Try wearing all your gear without them. I learned this during deployment. Need a good belt too. I like the "riggers" version. Sturdy and durable.

Small pack...and I mean SMALL. Carries your food, porn, woobie, extra socks ect ad nausem. I like the Sotech bailout bag, as well as the Swiss salt -n- pepper leather pack. Simple, rugged, and holds what you need. Get a padded waist belt.

Combat harness...it would depend on situation and weapon. I have an old style canvas Vietnam issue LBE set up with two canteens and buttpack. It will hold Garand enblock clips, M1 Carbine clips, FAL mags.
I like the TT MAV setup. It works with just about everything I have unless its old school.

Loadout is always dictated by the situation. If your in the boonies and will walking for tens of miles...travel light. If your staying close to home, carry as much ammo and water as possible.
Don"t forget your foot powder, and dry socks. While were talking socks...cotton kills. I like the new RFI issue ones. Best I"ve ever worn.

Be flexable. Walking around armed to the fucking teeth looking for a fight will get you one,and Big Gun Six will not be around to bail your ass out.

Take a buddy or two, or three. More eyes help, just don"t let "Joe" talk you into something stupid.

Take a map, and a compass, but most important...know how to use them. Also, know your area, and keep an eye and ear open to intell from local sources.

Optics...can"t stress this enough. Stay away from the massive 7x50 or 8x50 unless your in a vehicle. Use something smaller and lighter. 6x30 is a decent choice, but 6x24 is much better and lighter.

Flashlight with red lens. The Petzil LED headlamps are the fucking bomb, and depending on the situation, a weapon light. Carry spare battries in a waterproof case.

 

[Ranger-Medic]

....don't forget toilet paper...

 

[JoeMomma]

Sounds like the Pecos Run and Gun might be up your alley for testing your set up. 5-7 miles in the desert in August. It's only 1.5 hours from Carlsbad, NM. I ride over 8 hours to participate. :wink:

I"m sooooo jealous of you guys that live in areas that have this kind of run and gun for fun thing. Aside from a six hour range session with no people or distractions, I can"t think of a better way to spend a Saturday to unwind and get in that zone.

 

[joedog]

I"ll play along...

I would not choose boots with a zipper, they have a greater chance for blowing out. I have at least ten pairs of boots to choose from that are well broken in. Some are lightweight and not good for heavy loads, some are more for winter/wet...it would just depend.
Unless forced by freezing temperatures, your better off with a "woobie" tied inside a GI issue poncho.

Minimum of seven mags for the rifle, unless your using a battle rifle like a 30.06, or .308, then go to five or six with a bandoleer or two.

Don"t forget gloves, personal med kit, and a small flashlight.

Uniform would depend on where you live, and what works best. Plain old OD green, BDUs, or gucciflauge like Multicam. I really like the Multicam, and it works great where I live.

Pistol plus two mags, I"d personally go with an M9...I"ve used it more than any other pistol, and I"m comfortable with it.

Headgear...I still have my MICH, as well as a standard old school kevlar. Situation would dictate hard brain bucket, or boonie type headcover. Don"t forget a "doo rag" to catch sweat. I like the lightweight moisture wicking ones from Spec Ops. Many of us wore these in the desert...they work great.

Eye protection....self explanatory. A good all around chice is amber. You can use them at night if there is ambiant light, and they work well in the day.

Two knifes...one folding, one large. I like the Spydeco Military for the folder, and have become a fan of the Glock field knife.

Multi tool. Many uses, very handy.

Pant suspenders. Try wearing all your gear without them. I learned this during deployment. Need a good belt too. I like the "riggers" version. Sturdy and durable.

Small pack...and I mean SMALL. Carries your food, porn, woobie, extra socks ect ad nausem. I like the Sotech bailout bag, as well as the Swiss salt -n- pepper leather pack. Simple, rugged, and holds what you need. Get a padded waist belt.

Combat harness...it would depend on situation and weapon. I have an old style canvas Vietnam issue LBE set up with two canteens and buttpack. It will hold Garand enblock clips, M1 Carbine clips, FAL mags.
I like the TT MAV setup. It works with just about everything I have unless its old school.

Loadout is always dictated by the situation. If your in the boonies and will walking for tens of miles...travel light. If your staying close to home, carry as much ammo and water as possible.
Don"t forget your foot powder, and dry socks. While were talking socks...cotton kills. I like the new RFI issue ones. Best I"ve ever worn.

Be flexable. Walking around armed to the fucking teeth looking for a fight will get you one,and Big Gun Six will not be around to bail your ass out.

Take a buddy or two, or three. More eyes help, just don"t let "Joe" talk you into something stupid.

Take a map, and a compass, but most important...know how to use them. Also, know your area, and keep an eye and ear open to intell from local sources.

Optics...can"t stress this enough. Stay away from the massive 7x50 or 8x50 unless your in a vehicle. Use something smaller and lighter. 6x30 is a decent choice, but 6x24 is much better and lighter.

Flashlight with red lens. The Petzil LED headlamps are the fucking bomb, and depending on the situation, a weapon light. Carry spare battries in a waterproof case.

Wow, best loadout post I've ever read.

I am cutting and pasting that into a document and saving it.

Only other thing, again depending on the situation, as JoeMomma says, would possibly be some body armor.

joedog

 

[10auto]

Beginning to be a big fan of the 106FR. I shoot it more accurately than my 107's and ammo weight is a good deal less. The folding stock gets them small in a vehicle. Both of mine have been rock solid reliable... I have them set up with Ultimaks, pending an Aimpoint T1 purchase for a nice little scout config. A 1x4 power would let me get out there a good ways.

Also have a couple Glock 27's in small pocket ready kydex holsters. Like JM said, I want something that will not stick out at all. If I look like a threat, I'm interpreted as a threat.

 

[JoeMomma]

joedog, body armor has its place, but in order for it to be very effective against big boy stuff like 5.45 and larger, you need level III or V SAPI plates, plus a real Kevlar vest to catch the spall.
Depending on what size you wear, that type of vest alone weighs anywhere from twenty to thirty pounds, and combined with a basic ammo loadout, gets heavy quick, as well as increasing your chances for over heating in hot weather.

You can "cheat" with a plate carrier if you cover the SAPI plates with soft Kevlar inserts like those used in Police vests...it will cut the weight down somewhat, but will leave your neck unprotected unless you have a throat protector made of Kevlar.

Depending on what the situation dictated, I would only use body armor for certain situations like static defense. I"ve done a few long patrols in body armor, and that shit gets heavy QUICK with fourteen mags, weapon, and water.

I"d also like to mention something I forgot...and thats a pro mask. Unless you know what your doing, how to use it correctly, and use the CORRECT FILTERS, your wasting your time. The real deal M40 mask is damned expensive, and not too easy to find.
Grabbing one from the ole surplus store and calling it good, will get you killed, and lets face it, unless Waldo down the street has some mustard gas, or blood agent, your not going to need it anyway. Tear gas can be an issue, but as long as your not inside an enclosed space like a building, you can get clear.

One more thing...a camelback. These things kick ass, unless its very hot out, then the water can get hot enough to almost burn your mouth.

 

[trouble]

Good choice of rifle, but a glock uuuugh. Sorry S&W 4506 here and the knife would be a cold steel instead of a K BAR other wise good list.

 

[INFANTRY]

yeh, camelback hoses need to me insulated. They can allow the water in the tube to become hot. As for the winter, I've had all he water in the hose freeze up on me more times than I wish. With water, you need two keep some on your pack and on yourself. Drink the water from the pack first, if you have to drop your pack, your water supply on your body is still topped off.


In my area, bug juice is a must!! Your nights are going to be long with out it.

 

[Omega7.62]

What type of Russian vest did you wear out Zane, ? I have been thinking about getting the M-23 pioneer chest rig, or the Afghan era Lifchick rig, I currently use the Chi-com 3 cell PVC rig from centerfire like you use , and it is very durable. Your load out list sounds pretty good ,similiar to mine..Old guy rigs need to be pretty light, I find out quick if I can get by without something that can be left out to save weight...

 

[kaiservontexas]

....don't forget toilet paper...

AMEN!

Blow out kit? I may have missed it reading fast.

I would ditch the shotgun for more water, food, or both.

I would carry a Kukri; so, I am not against the KA-bar.

I agree ditch the zipper boots.

 

[joedog]

joedog, body armor has its place, but in order for it to be very effective against big boy stuff like 5.45 and larger, you need level III or V SAPI plates, plus a real Kevlar vest to catch the spall.
Depending on what size you wear, that type of vest alone weighs anywhere from twenty to thirty pounds, and combined with a basic ammo loadout, gets heavy quick, as well as increasing your chances for over heating in hot weather.

You can "cheat" with a plate carrier if you cover the SAPI plates with soft Kevlar inserts like those used in Police vests...it will cut the weight down somewhat, but will leave your neck unprotected unless you have a throat protector made of Kevlar.

Depending on what the situation dictated, I would only use body armor for certain situations like static defense. I"ve done a few long patrols in body armor, and that shit gets heavy QUICK with fourteen mags, weapon, and water.

I have never been LEO or a service member, never a "trigger puller" in any capacity, so pardon my ignorance. But wouldn't having something be better than nothing, even if it's just a IIa vest? Doesn't that buy you something against homie's handgun? And for a bug in guy, static defense in a post-Katrina situation doesn't seem unrealistic. A soft vest with a plate carrier as a chest rig might come in handy.

Perhaps that's too far off Zane's original intent in his post.

joedog

 

[10Gauge]

joedog, body armor has its place, but in order for it to be very effective against big boy stuff like 5.45 and larger, you need level III or V SAPI plates, plus a real Kevlar vest to catch the spall.
Depending on what size you wear, that type of vest alone weighs anywhere from twenty to thirty pounds, and combined with a basic ammo loadout, gets heavy quick, as well as increasing your chances for over heating in hot weather.

You can "cheat" with a plate carrier if you cover the SAPI plates with soft Kevlar inserts like those used in Police vests...it will cut the weight down somewhat, but will leave your neck unprotected unless you have a throat protector made of Kevlar.

Depending on what the situation dictated, I would only use body armor for certain situations like static defense. I"ve done a few long patrols in body armor, and that shit gets heavy QUICK with fourteen mags, weapon, and water.

I have never been LEO or a service member, never a "trigger puller" in any capacity, so pardon my ignorance. But wouldn't having something be better than nothing, even if it's just a IIa vest? Doesn't that buy you something against homie's handgun? And for a bug in guy, static defense in a post-Katrina situation doesn't seem unrealistic. A soft vest with a plate carrier as a chest rig might come in handy.

Perhaps that's too far off Zane's original intent in his post.

joedog

For "Grocery shopping" there's nothing wrong with soft armor. Unless someone touches you, they're not going to know you're wearing it. Weight isnt much of a factor.. they're getting thinner and stronger every year.

Though he does have a point with rifle calibers... although they're not concealable. Someone who notices the armor is going to aim for the head or pelvis.. or just flat out shoot until they chew through the armor or otherwise incapacitate..then move in to finish up. Some older plates are monolithic.. can stop one hit but shatter..then subsequent strikes go through.

 

[INFANTRY]

Joedog, I believe what Joemomma is try to communicate with everyone is that if your going to wear body armor you better have your butt in shape or your own gear will be your enemy. That stuff can mess your back up in no time at all for oldier guys. Everyone I know over 30 hates to wear armor because it kills up. I feel like my lower spine is getting crushed after a few days.

10Guage, weight is not much of a factor??? Where is this magical armor your getting?

 

[10Gauge]

Joedog, I believe what Joemomma is try to communicate with everyone is that if your going to wear body armor you better have your butt in shape or your own gear will be your enemy. That stuff can mess your back up in no time at all for oldier guys. Everyone I know over 30 hates to wear armor because it kills up. I feel like my lower spine is getting crushed after a few days.

10Guage, weight is not much of a factor??? Where is this magical armor your getting?

As far as soft armor goes..no plates.. and granted being a civvy, I wasnt exactly humping over hill and dale wearing the stuff... but for where I was working it didn't hinder me. its just MHO.. take it for what its worth.. which isnt very much :goof:

 

[eightbore]

You know what, I like the original list as it basically contains stuff that even the "non-enthusiast" can find and knows something about. The only thing I would swap would be cheap steel e. bloc mags for the polymer as I perceive a trade off here between weight and durability. I choose the latter.