AK Rifles banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Putting a bullet guide in a milled receiver, and the procedure itself shouldn't be very difficult. However, it's my first time doing it so I have two questions:

1: Do I have to install the guide before the barrel? I figure it would be a bit difficult to wiggle it in place if the barrel is installed, reason I'm asking is simply that I still haven't ordered the guide, but would like to start tinkering with the build.

2: There's not much wiggle room to locate it lengthwise, so I figure you just plop it in place, drill the hole and rivet it? Or should it be scooted against the back or the front if there's any clearance?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,868 Posts
usually receivers and bullet guides have holes in them already so that kinda removes the guesswork and you don't need to scoot anything.

putting a bullet guide before the barrel would be preferable but not critical i suppose. without barrel in place you have more option on how you will be pressing it. you can get in there with a press ram and shortest punch easily. When barrel is in the way it would not be as easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
There's no pre-drilled hole in this one, and that's why I thought there might be more to it than just slapping it in there. What you're saying about the installation order makes perfect sense, I just have to fight the urge to build until I have the guide :)

BTW: Do you know of any good tools to smooth out the rivet, in case it ends up proud of the ramp? I have tried to polish a few rough ramps, and working inside the receiver with a file or a Dremel is not easy. I guess it's only the rear edge of it that really matters to the function, but I'm kinda anal about neat installations. The only tool I can think of would be some kind of angled rotary tool, so do I need to take it to my dentist?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,868 Posts
you can reach through the barrel hole with regular dremmel tool sanding cylinder set in the collet long. yet another good reason not do barrel first.

pocket in the receiver trunnion (where stepped 'island' on the underside of the bullet guide goes) has rounded corners. bullet guide 'island' does not. so those rounder corners will act as limiters but ideally if you could get an AKM and sit mag into it and then measure how close bullet guide gets to the front of the mag in the AKM and essentially replicate that same spacing in your milled receiver. AKM and milled inside trunnion geometry is nearly identical with very minor variations.

additionally you can ask around and someone can give you exact measurement to the rivet hole from one of their receivers that have not been completed yet. i'm sure there is more than one person here that can do this. if all fails, let me know and i can dig out some receiver stubs from my stash and give you the measurement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I like the replicate and test fit idea, and the fit is what matters in the end anyway. I was digging around in my collection of "junk that might come in handy one day", and found a ruined Romy trunnion that I can rob the guide from. The hole in that should also give me an idea of where it needs to go in the new receiver.

I also like the idea of going by drawings, but my experience with both original and aftermarket parts tells me that many manufacturer's don't. The hole in a Romy guide may not line up exactly with the original drawing, so comparing and replicating the mag position should be much safer. It's more fun too, since it gives you a better understanding of how the parts interact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Got the bullet guide out of the Romanian trunnion, and the rivet was one of the hardest one I ever dealt with. It fought gallantly until the bitter end, but I finally managed to remove it without damaging the holes. I test fitted in the receiver and I can slide it almost a full mm back and forth, so I will obviously need to do some figuring to get it in the right place. More troubling is that the recesses in the receiver aren't deep enough, so the front of the guide will interfere with the barrel journal. Could be that it's just binding somewhere, but I don't feel like fooling with it tonight. In any case, it seems like there's more test fitting and eyeballing to do before it all comes together, but that's just part of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,868 Posts
what receiver are you building on? no holes, out of spec. sounds like garbage product to me. did you manage to find an old ORF receiver somewhere?
i mean it's your time and your gun, but i would not mess with the garbage receiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's a Sharps Bros, and I'm trying to help a friend put it together. He bought it second hand, and it appears that it has been played with a lot but never built on. I figure it once belonged to somebody who wasn't capable of building it, but liked to put the FCG in and play with it, slide the BCG around etc. and dream of the finished gun. I'm planning to do the same thing, just to make sure everything fits correctly.

I looked at it closer this morning, and the height problem was caused by a small burr. A quick swipe with a file and it fits just fine. I also test fitted a few mags, and none of them goes up far enough to interfere with the guide. I looked at how it's installed in other guns, and it was a mixed bag. Some are all the way back against the rails, some have a gap. It appears that it doesn't matter much, so I'll just go for the rearward position.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,868 Posts
eeeeek.
any issue this dumpster fire will have by the time you are done with it, would be super easy to pin on your honest help, even if it was due to due to sharps brothers cringe manufacturing work. it would be super hard to explain to not technical or mechanically inclined person that it's his trash receiver and not your skills. advice your friend to buy a tortort and have zero issues building it and shooting it. sell the sharps to someone who has ability and time to tinker with a lemon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I wouldn't rule it out as a lemon, not yet anyway. The bullet guide fits just fine now after a very minor clean-up, it doesn't interfere with the mag and the back-and-forth slop could just as well be in the Romanian bullet guide. It might even be the way the factory dimensions work out, who knows. My only concern at this point would be dimensional problems, but (knock on wood) I haven't found any so far. I can't see anything that indicates that the previous owner has tried to modify it either. There's just some scuffs and finish wear from putting the BCG and the selector in it and playing with them, that's all.

Granted, I don't know anything about Sharps' reputation, but I would inspect and test fit regardless of who made it. And my friend already knows that there could be issues, he provided a large assortment of miscellaneous parts and simply asked me to pick through it and see what I can use, then buy whatever needed. He knows it's a Frankenbuild, with all that comes with it. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The only real problems I can see right now is that I have never built on a milled receiver before, and I have never installed a bullet guide either (in an AK anyway). I sure appreciate your input so don't get me wrong, but you see any other issues than that?

I mean: The receiver looks like it has been a wannabe builder's teddy bear, but I can't see that it's damaged, modified or unserviceable in any way. Or are you saying that Sharps is a brand I should stay away from? I just need to know what to look out for, that's all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,868 Posts
milled receivers are much easier to build on than stamped.

as far as installing bullet guides - never had to drill for one but can't see how that could be too big of an issue. i use mostly carbide tooling on the mill so drilling for me is easy, albeit more pain/time to set up in the stationary vice than just free-hand and self-center that you would typically be doing on the drill press.

i riveted bullet guides on the press as well as with pneumatic riveter. i did have to get longer bit for the riveter and modify tips to work for the job. so YMMV depending on what equipment you have. can't really remember which one was the easier one. both options were awhile back and significantly spaced apart in time. i feel like maybe riveter was a bit less fiddly, than doing it on the press.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It's sure quicker and easier when you don't have to fit and rivet trunnions to the receiver, and I figure the lack of a rivet hole is beneficial in a way. I can line up the hole for the bullet guide I'm using, and I also get to choose between riveting or screwing the guide. I use a milling machine for most work like this, so drilling (and possibly tapping) the hole precisely is a piece of cake.

If I rivet the guide, I'll probably put a steel block underneath and turn some kind of simple tool so I can press it from the top, kinda like when you're riveting a trigger guard but with both ends of the rivet pressed flat. I don't have the correct rivet and I'd hate spending $15-$20 shipping on one, so I'll either make one or use a screw. Haven't decided on that yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,584 Posts
Meh, sharp bros. Why anyone would mess with anything other than a Tortort is beyond me.

Setting the bullet guide rivet is very easy on a in spec trunnion/receiver. I think @islandfocus2 has posted some nice pics of his set up here.

I'm on well more than ten milled bullet guide rivets. I use a combo of my 20ton press, rivet forming tools, a hammer and a Dremel to clean things up. If you give me a bit, I can hunt down pics of my set up and process.

Pics of build and parts? You may be putting more time and effort than your "sharp" receiver is worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Meh, sharp bros. Why anyone would mess with anything other than a Tortort is beyond me.

Setting the bullet guide rivet is very easy on a in spec trunnion/receiver. I think @Fjordforder has posted some nice pics of his set up here.

I'm on well more than ten milled bullet guide rivets. I use a combo of my 20ton press, rivet forming tools, a hammer and a Dremel to clean things up. If you give me a bit, I can hunt down pics of my set up and process.

Pics of build and parts? You may be putting more time and effort than your "sharp" receiver is worth.
Building on top of the line parts is always easier, but on the other hand: You don't always have a choice, and you learn more by using what you have. As a matter of fact, I really enjoy the challenge of building a gun out of parts that have been handed to me by somebody who doesn't know anything about the build process. I have put together many guns from parts, so now I'm tryin to learn as much as I can about building AK's.

Sounds like you have had a bad experience with Sharps, so what kind of problems did you run into? I was given the receiver to build on, so knowing about possible issues ahead of time would really help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,584 Posts
Building on top of the line parts is always easier, but on the other hand: You don't always have a choice, and you learn more by using what you have. As a matter of fact, I really enjoy the challenge of building a gun out of parts that have been handed to me by somebody who doesn't know anything about the build process. I have put together many guns from parts, so now I'm tryin to learn as much as I can about building AK's.

Sounds like you have had a bad experience with Sharps, so what kind of problems did you run into? I was given the receiver to build on, so knowing about possible issues ahead of time would really help.
I have a bunch of milled kits. I started buying them when the only option was having them rewelded by some of the great smiths that post here or buying a 100% but costly product.

Then when Tortort came on the scene with 80% receivers it made it much more doable for me as a home builder. No shipping out, no FFL type stuff etc. His products and customer service give me no reason to look elsewhere. I'm a little north of ten builds on Tortort's receivers, Yugo's, Soviets, Polish, Galils and so on. All required the bullet guide to be reinstalled.

I edited my previous post with the correct member's name, my bad. Anyway, here is a link to one of his excellent build and pic threads, My Tortort SF milled receiver build (Heavy Photos).

I use basically the same set up on all my milled and stamped builds.

Looking forward to your pics and results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Got the bullet guide installed today, and used the air grinder to smooth it out. Checked it with the BCG, and the bolt slides smoothly over the ramp and turns like it should. Then I turned a selector stop from 01 drill rod, annealed it and riveted it in place. Tried the trigger group to make sure the safety works like it should. I also installed the trigger guard and tried the guide with a loaded mag. The bullets slid over it nicely, and I hope they will also slide into the chamber once the barrel is installed. I don't want to jinx it, but so far it actually looks really good.

I guess the barrel is next, so now I have to pick through all the parts and see what I can use. My buddy wants a Romanian RPK barrel with a long, free floating handguard, so there will be some eyeballing and test fitting to make sure it comes together correctly.

I appreciate the advice!

Material property Automotive exterior Rectangle Metal Wood

Automotive lighting Hood Grille Automotive tire Motor vehicle

Automotive lighting Tool Gesture Bumper Wood

Hood Vehicle Automotive lighting Watercraft Bumper

Wood Grey Automotive design Trigger Automotive exterior

Air gun Ammunition Tableware Bullet Trigger
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yeah, it’s coming along nicely. Installed and headspaced the barrel yesterday, so it should hopefully be ready to test fire very soon.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top