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On another forum they are complaining that the ORF Galil recievers are all "soft" and lacking heat treatment! I've a CAI ORF Galil and over 500+ rounds out of it with no problems. They are saying the recievers stretch and go out of spec after a few hundred rounds. Any truth to this or urban legend.
 

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No truth.

IMO, they are lying or are...seriously...deluded. Mostly because they have an anti-ORF agenda and are waging a slander campaign.

Then, there are some vocal yahoos that blindly follow and parrot what some 'guru' yahoo says.


If after appoximately 8,000-10,000 Galil receivers (in different calibers), they still have NOT 1 EXAMPLE of a 'soft' receiver...there is a distinct lack of credibility on the part of the bashers/slanderers.


All it would take to SERIOUSLY DOCUMENT as 'soft' receiver would be to have a receiver tested by an ACCREDITED TEST LAB.

It's been years and thousands and thousands of receivers...and still...NOT ONE...has been taken to an ACCREDITED TEST LAB.

The only thing bashers/slanderers can come up with is...double talk.

(All it would take is one receiver taken to an ACCREDITED TEST LAB. :grin: )

The reason that none of the bashers/slanderers have not taken a single receiver to an ACCREDITED TESTING LAB is that they don't want to be 'painted into a corner' be confronted with the truth.

The double talk and blah blah blah will stop once the UNBIASED CREDIBLE TEST RESULTS are in.

(And no...not...a drunken buddy of one of the basher/slanderer, but, a real ACCREDITED TEST LAB.)

No...they keep yammering on and on. They are the modern day equivalent of the Flat Earth Society.

Double talk and lies are all you get from them, but still, not ONE receiver that tested 'soft' by an ACCREDITED TEST LAB.

Why all the NEEDLESS confusion, double talk and DRAMA? It's like dealing with crazy women.

All it would take is one receiver tested by an ACCREDITED TEST LAB.

But, it has been years...and still...not one 'soft' receiver tested by an ACCREDITED TEST LAB. Kinda makes ya wonder... :wink:


The REAL problem is with UNQUALIFIED 'builders'.

The 'builds' are out of spec. and that is what causes the problems. If any rifle is built improperly, you are gonna have problems.

The ORF Galil receivers require some fitting. Including making sure that both bolt lugs make equal contact.

The UNQUALIFIED 'builders' irresponsibly don't do this. Most don't even realize the importance of this.

So...they build a Galil improperly and then look to blame the receiver.



Want PROOF?


There are QUALIFIED builders and UNQUALIFIED builders.

There are builders that have built plenty of ORF receivered Galils with NO PROBLEM.

They are using the exact same receivers as everyone else.

They don't have any problem with a so-called 'soft' receiver.

Why?

Because they are QUALIFIED and build them properly.


Stick to REAL builders. QUALIFIED builders.

The ones that have a good track record of building ORF receivered Galils.

In Range is a good example.
 

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junk

If you pay for it, I'll send my "suspected" soft receiver, with uneven locking lugs, to be tested. I had a SER II and I suspected it was soft too. I don't think properly hardened steel would deform so much by just cycling the action. I never fired it. Even InRange can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
 

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See? Always a dodge. Always an excuse.

So far, after 8,000-10,000 ORF receivers...still no UNBIASED test by an ACCREDITED TEST LAB.

Not even one! :shock: LOL!

Just more heresay, innuendo and unsubstantiated accusations.



"I think", "I readt", "probably", "I heard", "my buddy told me", etc.

Oh, and um...."I suspect". :lol:



If what you say is true...it's easy to prove.


If you refuse to prove it...as have all the bashers/slanderers...well,... :cool:

Honestly, isn't that really just slander?



First of all, you admit you have uneven locking lugs. You don't need to go any further than that.

A properly hardened receiver with uneven lugs will have problems.

The fact that some people attribute these problems to 'soft' receivers is ludicrous.

First thing is, the rifle must be built with both lugs making even contact.

That's a 'gunsmithing 101' concept.

This is what I mean. People will confuse a poorly built rifle with a faulty receiver.

That's like confusing a penguin with an artichoke. :smile:

There was one guy that blamed the receiver because his rifle didn't shoot straight.

Turned out the 'builder' unintentionally, and unbeknownst to him, bent the barrel during installation while building.

Why would anyone do anything as inane as blaming the receiver for that? Because he 'read it somewhere'. :grin:



If you track down the basher/slanderer stories, you'll find they all have origins like this.




It's easy to say you 'suspect' something.

I could say that I 'suspect' that the bashers/slanderers still think that the earth is flat.

I could say that I 'supect' the sky is secretly pink.

I could say that I 'suspect' that Elvis is still alive and delivering pizzas in Cincinnati.

I'm sure you get the point. :mrgreen:



In Range sent me an email and stated that they have had no problems with their ORF Galil builds.

While I do believe In Range, you only 'suspect' something...which is really an unsubstantiated accusation which would be....real easy...to verify.

Yet, you haven't done it.

So, you 'suspect' something?

The SER is still guaranteed, isn't it?

Why have you intentionally NOT found out for sure?

In Range stands behind their products. They aren't afraid of the truth.

Are you afraid of the truth? Cause it's easy to find the truth here.

I mean, if you are making unfounded accusations, why not find out for sure?

Hmmm? :wink:




I 'suspect' it is for the same reason you haven't sent the other receiver to an UNBIASED ACCREDITED TESTING LAB.



So far, all talk....no action.



Please don't take my comments personally.

I am just pointing out the logical absurdities in your completely unsubstantiated position.



I 'suspect' you 'read somewhere' or 'your buddy told you' or whatever.

What I am clear on is that you have not taken the...very simple....actions that would quickly and easily prove your position....if true.

Now...why's that? :neutral:



When you could easily prove something...and intentionally don't...and yet, proceed to propagate negative 'stories'...isn't that really just defamation?

Someone could say that they 'supect' you are a child molestor and that would cause you problems. Wouldn't it?

No proof. Just an accusation, couched as a 'suspicion'.

Would you want someone to do that to you? No. Of course not.


If the receiver really is bad, or if someone really is a child molestor, people should find out. No problem there.

Yet, no one has ever come out with anything other than accusations.

8,000-10,000 ORF receivers and not one single supposed 'soft' receiver taken to an UNBIASED ACCREDITED TEST LAB.

This could all have been settled years ago. But, then some 'builders' would see an "inconvenient truth" about their work. So...they keep the blather going endlessly.

And, in your case, you haven't even sent your SER back to In Range to be tested.
 

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Oswald

After seeing all his posts praising ORF and InRange, ( and putting his name on a "back-up" list to buy a SER II) I offered my SER II to Oswald, at cost. He turned me down. It was SER II #38. I sold it to someone who said he'd send it back to InRange and have it fixed. I don't know if he ever did. It did not work when I tried it.

I don't want to throw more money down the drain, that's why I won't pay to get the ORF receiver tested. If I were to spend more money on the project, I'd send it straight to someone who could fix the diminsional problems and re-do the heat treat properly.

That is a big expensive job. So, I just bought another IMI Galil instead.
 

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Re: Oswald

Louie said:
After seeing all his posts praising ORF and InRange, ( and putting his name on a "back-up" list to buy a SER II) I offered my SER II to Oswald, at cost. He turned me down. It was SER II #38. I sold it to someone who said he'd send it back to InRange and have it fixed. I don't know if he ever did. It did not work when I tried it.

I don't want to throw more money down the drain, that's why I won't pay to get the ORF receiver tested. If I were to spend more money on the project, I'd send it straight to someone who could fix the diminsional problems and re-do the heat treat properly.

That is a big expensive job. So, I just bought another IMI Galil instead.


The only reason I didn't buy the SER II was because things got really bad for me at that time (they have gotten far worse since) and I didn't have the money.


So...here you are again claiming something.

"It did not work when I tried it."

What does that mean?

The SER II was guaranteed by In Range...and yet you didn't get it fixed?

Or even checked out?

You are just making a vague claim? Is that right. :grin:

I mean, as long as you intentionally didn't verify this, why not accuse the rifle of being radioactive?



You make claims, but, have not stepped up to the table and let things be seen in the cold clear light of day.

In Range stands behind their products.

Here is what In Range wrote to me in an email regarding their experience with ORF Galil receivers in their Galil builds.

"We have not had any problems after they were assembled."


That says it all. Period.

Now, In Range is available at any time to back their products and back their word.

Where are you?

You are just saying things. And talk is, after all,...cheap.



So far...I don't see where you have any credibility.


It goes this way with the bashers/slanderers.

Somehow...magically...the rifle is NEVER TESTED.

It always disappears somehow.


And why would you sell a rifle to someone that you 'suspected' had a 'soft' receiver? One that 'didn't work'? :neutral:


See? Again, you are making an accusation which you couch in terms of 'I suspect'.


Also, another of your unfounded accusations is that a receiver was supposedly 'dimensionally incorrect'.

Another claim you make with no basis in fact. No proof.

And with all due respect, this is from someone that confuses the very basic and obvious need for both lugs to make even contact as being a problem with a supposedly 'soft' receiver.





"I'd send it straight to someone who could fix the diminsional problems and re-do the heat treat properly."

You're still not getting it.

You admitted that it was IMPROPERLY BUILT because both lugs didn't make equal contact.

ANY BUILD where both lugs don't make sufficient contact will cause problems. Don't you get that?

A PERFECT receiver with an improper build will end up with problems.

It can't get any more simple than that.








Your claims remind me of Big Foot sightings claims.

Somehow there is never any verification.

Some bogus blurry photos of a guy in a monkey suit, but, nothing that would stand up in the cold clear light of day.

Always blurry, always excuses...




If there really was a Big Foot, someone would have found something by now. The search has gone on and on for years.

And yet...nothing.



8,000-10,000 ORF receivers and still...nothing.


Leave the building to QUALIFIED BUILDERS.

With QUALIFIED BUILDERS...there is no problem.




There is a site where the anti-ORF 'Big Foot' sightings are allowed and encouraged.

Occasionally the fistula errupts and the infection contaminates other sites.

Buy, ya know, they don't have any proof either. Magically.


You have had 2 ORF receivers and claim whatever you claim. With nothing to back it up.



If you're gonna believe in Big Foot...ok.

But...it would do wonders for your credibility if you could show some kind of evidence.

A skull, a hank of hair, a piece of Big Foot Poop....something. :cool:



So far, you have had a SER II rifle that was fully guaranteed and you made no attempt to verify your claims.

In Range says 'no problems'.


In Range stands ready to back up what they say and the work that they do.

So far...you're just talking. :wink:



"It did not work when I tried it."

Now, ya gotta admit that it doesn't get any more vague than that. That's funny. :grin:
 

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Well, there's ORF...

and then there's...uh....um...uh... :grin:
 

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I have serial # 206 (an early Galil receiver). The build went together fairly easily, not without hiccups, but that is normal with any build. When I head-spaced the early receiver I did have to make sure that BOTH of the locking lugs made solid contact (Duh!)..

I also have a SER Rifle (# 41 (I think) )..

Both are flawless and are holding together perfectly. Even after extended high volume firing.

Any time that ANYONE builds a rifle it is a flat out OBVIUOS common sense procedure to check the surfaces of any and ALL locking lugs.. Bolt guns semi autos you name it, if it has lugs under stress they need to make solid/significant contact.

Most of these whiny complaints that exist (concerning the "supposedly soft" receivers) are from people that are too lazy to assemble, and build a rifle correctly or from those that are in over their head in the experience dept. Also there are those complaints that are from "accredited" builders that don't want to work as hard as they might be required to, to make the Galil builds function correctly.. They just want to work on the traditional "easy" (traditionally and relatively speaking) stuff and make the gravy money..

Some very decent builders have built some lemon Galils on the available ORF receivers. They have admitted in the past that they built the Galils like "any other AK".. By doing this they over looked or skipped the step of checking the contact of BOTH of the the lugs.. Since the Galil uses a milled receiver, and the locking surfaces are part of this new made and available receiver; it basically makes the build a "Virgin" build. There are no lightly used "#s matching kits to slap together and simply verify head-space with a set of gauges.........

After looking at and handling my fair share of Galil rifles and kits alike, I can say that there seems to be a fairly wide variety of tolerances and small differences and changes it the original manufacturing of the Galill itself. Between Israel, Guatemala, and a few other countries that made, bought, sold, re-sold, used, serviced and sold them, there are small differences in the way parts will fit up and rifles will go together.

This definitely makes things a bit more tedious for builders and receiver manufacturers both. A one size fits all approach is the ONLY way to make a receiver both commercially workable/successful, and monetarily successful for the MFG Company. This virtually GUARENTEES that many things will have to be worked out and fitted during the process of any build...

Again ORF is the only manufacturer out there building these. Are they always perfect -no. But who is? ORF has always stood behind their products within reason. Yes the Galil builds take a lot more care and patience to build - that is a given. Yes they do require a decent amount of hand fitting and nursing, but something worth doing is worth doing correct right? They do indeed take quite a bit more elbow grease to get right. Every different type of Firearm build has its own quirks. From a "builders perspective" they are tougher and your turn-around time is longer. If a builder is used to "easy money" builds the ORF receivers are not for them.. But if the builder does their due diligence and charges accordingly there is little for anybody to worry about.

Am I an ORF fan boy? No, I have had a few minor issues with a couple of things in the past, and things were always worked out amicably. I once even lost an entire couple of days because of a scheduling mix up. I do own 4 of their products and have had MINIMAL issues (honestly piddly issues)..

If there were an accredited unbiased "survey and or study" of these supposedly "soft" or otherwise disastrously defective Galil / Yugo M-76 receivers, then maybe I would be doubtful of the builds that I have.

As of yet NONE of these clear and definitive controlled studies (or any other solid evidence or proof) has ever been presented.

The only thing that has surfaced thus far is a bunch of hot air ,sponsored and biased mudslinging, "interwebnet" recycled rumors and hearsay. It is easy to piss and moan anonymously on the net. That is why people do it so much, they cannot be held accountable. Yet these same impossible to appease/please people expect everyone else alive and in existence to be held accountable for any and all things they feel relevant at the time.

At the end of the day feelings and "hunches" don't mean squat, period. Facts and documented evidence rule the day.

It's a free country, and the choice is ultimately yours. Research your purchases well, take all heated and exited "band wagon" advice with the prescribed dosing of salt, do your homework and dig down and contact CREDIBLE individuals (industry representatives , business owners, employees etc) yourself and make a carefully weighted decision based on the factual evidence at hand.


---APB
 

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interesting read....
can a soft receiver be returned and replaced with a new one?
do the new receivers get tested after heat treatment?
where would be a good place to send stuff for testing?
i am very curious of this claim too......
 

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Every point has been covered ad nauseum on many many other threads on this site and others.


If you really want to know what is going on....


Read apb2772's post on this thread.

It is, by far, the best post on the whole matter that I have ever read.



ETA:

Plus, the complaintant posted on numerous boards on the internet regarding his displeasure.

No need to respond on every single site.
 

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Jim,

You can't start nonsense here.

The mods won't put up with it.

It you make a bogus accusation, you better have documentation.
 

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Time to knock it off. Both of you.
 

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SER II rifles have a 1 year warranty for fit, function, and finish.

KF
 
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