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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys, I need some help from as many of you as possible. I'm attempting to finalize some cuts I made in my receiver to install the front latch on a sidefolder conversion I'm wrapping up.


The problem is I'm double-checking my measurements and noticed some discrepancies, so I need some exact meanurements. I originally used the blueprints on Pookie's website (edit - blueprints were originally provided by K-Var) to make my cuts, but I'm checking the measurements against my AK-BUILDER receiver and they're different!


I need to know what the exact measurements of the box cut, and how far from the front of the receiver the first cut starts. Here's the measurements I need (see pictures below)....
















For those of you that are Blessed to own some SGL sidefolders, could you please post the measurements of the latch cut? If possible post pics if you can. I figure for other DIY'ers, this thread could serve as a resource to others in my same situation.


Let's see what the SGLs actually are! Thanks everyone!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sounds great Greg! I think the more of us that post, the more conclusive the actual measurements are, and we can also determine of there's any variances!

i look forward to your posts!
 

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ive got:
.457
.208
.920
1.354

please note. I dont have great lighting. Holding the latch so I can measure is kindof a pita. my battery is dying. Measurements might not be exact but are within the .000ths
 

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I was unaware I have any measurements shown on my website?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
AZGreg, thank you so much for posting those measurements up! It looks like they are a few hundredths off of the measurements I obtained from my receiver flats.

Tantal, I'm sorry my mistake. I got the "blueprints" off of Pookie's website. I was using your website for photographic reference. My apologies.

Here's the blueprints measurements mentioned above...



if anyone else could post up your measurements, I would greatly appreciate it

Thanks everyone!
 

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Those particular drawings were originally from KVar. They used to be included with stock kits, way back when.

I just wanted to make sure I did not have any inaccurate drawings on my website.

Be aware the rear edge angle of the receiver/trunnion are different on 5.5mm compared to 4.5mm stocks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Are you installing a 5.5mm or 4.5mm stock?

Im installing 7 of the 5.5mm (current Russian), and 4 of the 4.5 (current Bulgarian, older Russian) folding stocks. The reveiver flats I measured in my pictures above were for a 4.5mm rear trunnion, but everywhere I have researched, the front latch box, latch pin, and all front latch measurements are exactly the same between the 4.5mm and 5.5mm stocks. Good looking out! Thank you!!!

Those particular drawings were originally from KVar. They used to be included with stock kits, way back when.

I just wanted to make sure I did not have any inaccurate drawings on my website.

Be aware the rear edge angle of the receiver/trunnion are different on 5.5mm compared to 4.5mm stocks.
No problem. Sorry again to alarm you. I'm a stickler for details, and I would be upset for posting something inaccurate as well. I'll edit my original post, so that no one assumes your info is incorrect. Sorry again Tantal. You have a great site, and it's been very helpful.

I had no idea those images came from K-Var way back when, but that gives me more confidence in them considering the other details I've seen on K-Var's other products!

i have all the angle cuts for the rear of the receivers completed. I hope to upload a thread on my builds once they're 100% complete to show the methods I used compared to sone of the other great builds seen on this forum.


thanks again everyone, and if anyone has anymore measurements they can contribute, please do so!
 

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A couple of things:

1) Are you assuming that the SGL sidefolders from K-Var are a "factory" sidefolder? I believe they are not; rather, the conversion is done in the US. The evidence I've seen from different "batches" of SGL sidefolders suggests that K-var is either outsourcing the conversion, or for whatever reason, is amazingly inconsistent (both from rifle to rifle, and from batch to batch) in their conversion processes. So if you're thinking that the SGL is the gold standard, it's not. The only gold standard are actual Izhmash factory sidefolders, which have never been imported (with rare exceptions) into the US. So the best thing to do is to study authentic photos of factory folders to get these details.

2) The older k-var blueprints are correct for the front latch cutout - it's the same for both the new 4-degree and older 6-degree rear hinge blocks. The blueprints are, of course, only correct for the 6-degree rear cuts.

3) Not that I doubt you, but can you give us more detailis about exactly what you're building? You say you have a total of 11 rifles you're converting. Are these 11 new builds, 11 existing fixed-stock rifles, or a mix? The reason I ask is because the tools I'd use for converting 1 rifle, vs 11 rifles, are very different. If I knew I had to do 11 conversions, I'd invest up front in carefully constructed jigs to do the cuts. If it's 11 annealed flats, then I'd definitely look at building press punch tooling (as the factory uses).

4) Remember: There's alot of slop in all of these elements of fitment, so it's not terribly important to hold tolerances to 0.001" for these cuts. Generally speaking, people's eyes see symmetry and shape, not calibrated dimensions... So if you're going to be crazy about details, be crazy about symmetry and shape, not about absolute dimensions. I say this with a certain degree of been-there-done-that'ed-ness :p.

-Thirtycal
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
A couple of things:

1) Are you assuming that the SGL sidefolders from K-Var are a "factory" sidefolder? I believe they are not; rather, the conversion is done in the US. The evidence I've seen from different "batches" of SGL sidefolders suggests that K-var is either outsourcing the conversion, or for whatever reason, is amazingly inconsistent (both from rifle to rifle, and from batch to batch) in their conversion processes. So if you're thinking that the SGL is the gold standard, it's not. The only gold standard are actual Izhmash factory sidefolders, which have never been imported (with rare exceptions) into the US. So the best thing to do is to study authentic photos of factory folders to get these details.

2) The older k-var blueprints are correct for the front latch cutout - it's the same for both the new 4-degree and older 6-degree rear hinge blocks. The blueprints are, of course, only correct for the 6-degree rear cuts.

3) Not that I doubt you, but can you give us more detailis about exactly what you're building? You say you have a total of 11 rifles you're converting. Are these 11 new builds, 11 existing fixed-stock rifles, or a mix? The reason I ask is because the tools I'd use for converting 1 rifle, vs 11 rifles, are very different. If I knew I had to do 11 conversions, I'd invest up front in carefully constructed jigs to do the cuts. If it's 11 annealed flats, then I'd definitely look at building press punch tooling (as the factory uses).

4) Remember: There's alot of slop in all of these elements of fitment, so it's not terribly important to hold tolerances to 0.001" for these cuts. Generally speaking, people's eyes see symmetry and shape, not calibrated dimensions... So if you're going to be crazy about details, be crazy about symmetry and shape, not about absolute dimensions. I saw that with a certain degree of been-there-done-that'ed-ness :p.

-Thirtycal
Hey Thirtycal! Great for you to jump in! Your builds way back when are what inspired me to start working on AKs in the first place.

1) No, SGLs are not the "gold standard" by any means. From what I have read, the FIME/Arsenal Saigas are all modified here in the US. I haven't seen too many actual SGLs (other than online), so I am unaware of what inconsistencies exist between rifles or between runs. If the blueprints I originally based my latch cuts on came from K-Var, I would assume that they would follow the blueprint that K-Var themselves provided. This is why I wanted to have several measurements written in this thread, to determine what measurements are being used, and to see how much variance exists.

Due to the rarity of "100 series" authentic Russian AKs here, I would ultimately like these measurements, but I wouldn't have anyone respond with any measurements. The only actual Russian sidefolder receivers that have made it stateside have been the demilled 4.5mm receivers, and I would guess there are fewer people with these receiver stubs than SGLs.

2) I trusted the blueprints, but after seeing that the cuts appear to be considerably larger on the receiver flats I have, which is why I asked for measurements from other rifles such as a production run.

3) I'm converting 7 Saigas, and scratch-building 4 kits.

4) I'm noticing that there is a degree of slop on many different sections of the AKs. I think it's a great thing in some ways. For my builds, I want to have some consistency on my builds, so before enlarging any cuts I made, I wanted to get as much info about other sidefolders so I can determine the size of the hole and how far back from the the front of the receiver it typically starts. I've noticed variances ranging from 0.02 to .0005. Obviously I'm not sweating 5 ten thousandths, but 2 hundredths is a decent difference to me.
 

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junker2034.jpg The only gold standard are actual Izhmash factory sidefolders, which have never been imported (with rare exceptions) into the US. So the best thing to do is to study authentic photos of factory folders to get these details.
I got this from Doug back in the day. I'm pretty sure the location is the same 30cal.
 

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View attachment 2476 The only gold standard are actual Izhmash factory sidefolders, which have never been imported (with rare exceptions) into the US. So the best thing to do is to study authentic photos of factory folders to get these details.
I got this from Doug back in the day. I'm pretty sure the location is the same 30cal.
Yup, and that's the exception of which I speak. The Junker's air rifle, circa 2001. To my knowledge, that is the only Izhmash factory folder ever imported into the US.

-Thirtycal
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
View attachment 2476 The only gold standard are actual Izhmash factory sidefolders, which have never been imported (with rare exceptions) into the US. So the best thing to do is to study authentic photos of factory folders to get these details.
I got this from Doug back in the day. I'm pretty sure the location is the same 30cal.
Definitely a cool pic! I haven't seen this before! This is clearly Russian. Is it an AK? It's strange to NOT see the 2nd rivet on the front Trunnion, or the "bolt cycle rivet" (the 3rd rivet that cycles the bolt on AKs that don't contain a round bullet guide).

I'm just trying to check my work on the front latch cutout. Since I have two separate measurements that are greater than the +/-.004 variance, I'm trying to confirm what the current/modern latch cutout dimensions are. Since there's basically no Modern, Russian made receivers in the country, the SGLs would be a good "3rd entry" to check the flat and blueprints against. I have about 12 different examples of the shape of the latch cut. I just need to check where and how large the cutout I made is, and determine if it needs to be enlarged or relocated.

Does anyone else have any measurements from the front latch of any Russian AKs, including SGLs?
 
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