I have the same problem, John. I was gonna say wear yourseld out with sex and booze, but you already said it don't work. I was gonna try that method, but no partners were on hand to test it out. Wish I still lived in Olongapo.

 

I take melatonin daily. The regular ones didn't work that great but the sublingual ones put me out hard. Trying to sleep without this stuff is the kiss of death

 

doug, booze makes it much worse and zombiefys everything. makes my knees hurt and teeth also. my wife is pregnant and me drinking even when she could drink seemed very testy and experimental. wife pretends to like alcohol enough to please me but out of respect for her I also don't like to drink lately. she had problems in Philippines growing up with british guy next door always being drunk beating up her aunt and everybody from what I gather. I cured myself from beinge drinking knob creek whiskey by nearly dying in hospital and im certain 4 kidney stones was a result no matter what anybody says. I think my drinking days are winding down for now. I take a nano smidgen of red wine and apple cider vinegar daily as a health enhancer not for any other reason. no booze here unless doug ford or martin or somebody cool stops by. then its on baby! you like 2 hearted ale?

 

as far as melatonin I have some and I used it last about 3 to 4 years ago during a drunken sad time in my life. maybe ill try it again but it might not work. maybe ill buy a different brand and one that's not out dated. lately ive focused on taking fluoride and aluminum out of my diet completely. it may take a while but I think its helping me feel more energetic already.

 

Im in the same boat with booze, C-B. Wife doesnt like it when I drink and doesnt help sleep. mY OLD REMEDY FOR GOOD SLEEP IS A BOWL OF fRENCH vANILLA HOMEMADE FROZEN YOGURT. bETTER THAN iCE CREAM TASTE! aFTER ALL THE SH=UGAR DROPS SO DO MY EYES AND i SLEEP GREAT. fOR THAT MATTER ANY SWEET S WORK. sSorry caps locked.

 

sublingual means liquid right or wrong? ill try looking for that. thank you! that's cool to know. liquid b vitamins work better than pill also. makes sense!

 

The sublingual I use are the sublingual pills. Just bite them in half and let them dissolve. Biting them in half sort of expedites the whole process. Try looking for the Spring Valley brand at Walmart. The 3mgs knock me out harder than a 5 or more MG non-sublingual.

 

Schedule an appointment with your doctor.

 

this, see your doctor. You could have anxiety, depression. Your body needs sleep to help repair the brain so the lack of sleep can make it worse. Do you have a family history of anxiety or depression? Also if they prescribe med depending on what it is can take a few weeks to work. There is ambien they could try. Just go see your doctor and I would get a full check up, blood work etc.

 

11yrs in the Army + 11yrs in LEO + SWAT + 2 small boys + my wife and I working full time (she's LEO too!) + no family in the area to help w/the kids + living damn-near check to check... Think I have stress and trouble sleeping!!?!?!

I usually couldn't sleep for more than 6 hours - max. And I would wake up 2-3 times a night. I have tried melatonin, but it only knocks me out for about 3 hours, then wide awake. I've tried Benedryl = same thing. Having friends that have taken Ambien and similar products, I've heard about the side-effects - and I refuse to go down that road!

I've found only 2 things that work, with the 2nd likely being far-better than the 1st...

1st thing that worked for me was "Z-Quil..." Yes, made by Nyquil, but designed specifically for sleep. A double shot of that, and I was out for a solid 8 hours. A bit groggy upon waking up though, if I didn't get the 8 hours.

2nd thing that worked is a supplement called "Natural Calm." It can be purchased at Costco or similar. It is a magnesium supplement. Yep, that simple. I've been to a few "health and wellness" type lectures for Mil & LEO, lectures hosted my the health/wellness guys who are actually assigned to Naval Surface Warfare (SEALs). Sleep, or lack thereof, always comes up as a topic. W/o getting into all the jargon - your brain needs a certain amount of magnesium to be able to go into "standby mode," which allows you to fall asleep and get to the different stages of sleep, some of which you need to get the brain into "re-charge/standby-mode."

Keep in mind - if you drink alcohol to attempt to get to sleep, your brain will jump this important stage (Stage 3 sleep). So even if you fall to sleep, in some ways, your brain doesn't.

Yes, I'm WAY over-simplifying this.

Anyway - I've been taking this Natural Calm stuff for a few months and I now have no problem sleeping 8 hours a night - dead to the world! I wake up = no groggy or dragging ass. It's made a believer out of me! No, I don't sell the stuff or own stock either...

Only thing is - Magnesium is a bit of a diuretic, and you need to build up a tolerance over the course of a couple weeks or so - otherwise it"ll give you the shits. "Full dose" is 2 Teaspoons. Start off with 1/2 Teaspoon couple times a day. Then after about 3-5 days of this, add another 1/2. After a couple weeks you can do the full dose w/o having to worry about it sneaking up on you in the form of a "Code Brown!"

Give it a whirl - it's worked wonders for me...

And if this doesn't help - you can always start an underground boxing/fighting club, and name your alter-ego "Tyler Durden!" At least I would!

 

j-rod, you are awesome! natural calm sleep supplement at Costco is exactly the kind of advice and hope I was wanting to grab. I cant wait to try that. thank you buddy! and yes I often get the tyler durden/road warrior feeling too when im up 2 days working. it can be dangerous just driving thru town let alone being a swat cop so yeah be careful. its like walking thru a mine field half awake. as far as any z-quil or drugs with known toxic chemicals in small doses im trying that stuff last but ill keep in in the back of my mind. sometimes im awake 6 days in a row with only 1 2 or 3 to 5 random hours of sleep a night during knob creek gunshow setup and it tears my body up so ill keep that snippet tucked away for now in case I need it.

 

ak74dude, im going to try both the 3mg and 5mg in reserve sublingual spring valley brand at Walmart tomarrow to verify results over a 2 week or longer trial period. vitamins and the like take 2 to 4 weeks to be absorbed daily and replenish and change/enhance health to normal ivebeen told with vitamins in general. ill give it a real shot and find out. im not able to overlook anything in my quest for getting my life back on track. whichever one works for me best ill find out. I know some folks act differently to diff. meds too.

 

ill try to find a Costco and visit one. my brother said we have one in ohio now. if not ill try the wal mart sublingual first until then but the magnesium sounds like a freaking miracle cure. maybe gnc would have it? that would be even better.

 

I think that j-rod's, ak74dude's, & JoeMomma's pieces of advice are all worth heeding. And especially, yes, I would stay away from Ambien! But I'll add a few other (non-medical advice, I am not a doctor, blahblahblah...) ideas fwiw:

Theanine - If you suspect that any of your insomnia might be anxiety-related, Theanine is a natural amino acid found in Green Tea that seems to reduce anxiety without any side effects whatsoever. Some people report taking up to 1200 mg per day, but I have found that 200 mg twice daily (once with breakfast and once with dinner) has helped to take the edge off of some troublesome issues that I am working on but there are no quick or easy answers to them all. It doesn't make me drowsy or anything, just helps keep my mind from running down pointless paths over and over again.

Limit blue light at night - This means no screens within an hour of sleep. I ignore this advice often (like, er, right now), but do notice a difference when I heed it.

Red wine in moderation.

Best of luck, brother.

-otus

 

Get the f.lux app. It adjusts your monitor's color temperature to mimic the day/night cycle so using the computer before bed doesn't mess with your sleep.

 

Over the counter: 200mg 5-htp, melatonin in 10mg strength, Benedryl, experiment with doses and timing. Remember that Benedryl is only good for like 4 hours.

If the issue is anxiety then the prescription route is: Xanax, klonopin

 

I'd avoid benzos for sleep at all costs. Long term cognitive effects are not worth it and you're really not getting true sleep either.

 

You may also want to get with your doctor and have a sleep study done. It could be sleep apnea brought on by suppressed breathing due to physical issues that is waking you up or sleep apnea caused by other neurological issues. Sleep apnea while annoying and fatiguing is also DEADLY over the long term causing heart damage.

Go see your DR.

 

My sleeping problem is I can not wake up... It feels like I am waking up out of a year long coma... A train horn could blast in my ear and I would not wake up... So when I finally do get out of bed at 5AM I am in zombie mode until 11 or 12... I want to fall asleep driving, eating, and even standing up...

This is so bad, I did go and take a sleep study... Even though my graph did look consistant, she said I did have sleep apnea... The only thing she said was for me to take adderall during the day, which I will not do...

Lately, it is the complete opposite... I can't fall asleep until 11 or 12 and I am waking up like clockwork at 3AM... I'm to afraid to go back to sleep because I actually feel good and normal when I do get up at 3...

Point in all this, I totally understand your frustrations man... This sleep bullshit just makes me sick... I don't think I have had any REM sleep in 6 months... I fell a million times better sleeping 2-3 hours a night and taking naps during the day, than sleeping all night...

 

Melatonin. No 'screen time' an hour before bed (TV, computer, cell phone, what have you), no food or drink save water an hour before bed, and stretching exercises a half hour before bed. These things work for me.

 

I've been taking melatonin as needed for a few years now. The advantages are huge, no negative side effects, cheap, works. However it doesn't suit everyone. Based on my experience, and what I've heard from other people, Melatonin only really helps you fall asleep. So if you have issues with constantly waking up, it may not help you. If I take 5mg of Melatonin, the effects will come and go within an hour for me, so it's best to take it 15-30min before bed. It's definitely worth a shot either way.

 

I've tried a lot of different things, and have given up. Up to this point I've had to decide on whether I want to be sleep deprived/cranky vs groggy/hungover.

Exercise - Leaves me energized, not tired.
Alcohol - Sleep like a rock, wake up dehydrated, and as stated, not really having gone through the full sleep cycle.
Ambien - I was prescribed the highest dose available and yet it never really made me sleepy, but I did feel groggy waking up. Oh, and I'd find that I'd bought a bunch of shit I didn't remember upon checking my inbox in the morning.
Melatonin - Haven't tried it in years, but when I did it had no effect on me.
Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) - I took the Equate brand liquid gels for a few months beginning last year because it would make me barely able to hold my head up and I would sleep great. But I put it down recently because: It left me groggy and super cranky in the morning, AND recent research has a correlation of extended use of it in development of dementia.

I'm interested now in checking out Natural Calm, but anything Dr. Oz pushes immediately sets off my Bullshit meter.

 

I don't know anything about Dr Oz pushing Natural Calm...

It was recommended/suggested (to me) by one of Dr Potterat's staff during a Mil/LEO Heath and Wellness all-day class. Dr Potterat is in charge of Naval surface Warfare psychiatry. He developed and heads the program that is in charge of all the Naval shrinks who travel with the SEALs on their deployments. One member of his staff, a former SEAL and now Doctor, who is a sleep specialist, suggested it as an option during the course of the seminar...

 

Valerian used to help me

 

I bought a 20 dollar bottle of Magnesium supplements an hour ago because of this thread. I definitely have symptoms of a deficiency anyway, and the multivitamin I take only has 30% daily value.

 

I believe that Magnesium Citrate is the one you want due to higher absorption levels. Magnesium Oxide is supposedly poorly absorbed. I've got a pretty stiff neck and back, and take Magnesium, Ibuprofen, and Fish Oil as needed. Working the assembly line at GM killed my hands, overtime and overloaded jobs are rough on your body. This combination of supplements worked well for me. If you take these, along with Melatonin right before bed they all work very well together and you will sleep better.

Moderation is really important with anything like this.

 

I've had the same troubles for as long as I can remember. It's getting better, but last night was one of the nights I couldn't stay asleep for more than one hour.

I'm scared of melatonin to be honest. I'm not sure how much is naturallg produced in the body, but I'd be shocked if if was more than a couple mcg. Taking 5mg of the stuff sure worries me that the body will simply stop producing its own, similar to testosterone etc etc. the body is amazing at finding equilibrium, so overloading it will likely cause a cease in production or hlocking of the receptors (but I haven't seen studies on it so just speculating). Ambien works 100% for me, but I ended up being hopelessly reliant on it for a few years so I now keep just 4 of them if I got an exam the next day or something

My best trick is to never take naps if I don't sleep. That always led me to an endless cycle of never getting back on track. I don't care how hard it is, I won't take a nap even if I haven't slept for 2-3 days. Eventually I sleep...

The other tricks I use are I always go to sleep around the same time (10-11PM) and wake up at the same time (4AM-6AM). The body produces melatonin in response to darkness, and much to my surprise I've found being sure to not be on my computer or a well lit room for 30 min before sleeping makes a big difference. I almost never let myseld sleep more than 6 hours, as oversleeping always triggers an insomnia cycle for me.

The last tip I got is the beta blocker propranolol. Non narcotic, extremely old (first of its class) pill that slightly slows the heart, calms anxiety, etc. If you're like me and rather not be dependent on any narcotics, it is a fantastic choice. It is the only medication that helps my tremor too, so it even helps me at the shooting range

 

Keep us posted how it goes buddy I'm definitely interested too

 

I just don't get enough sleep.

I have severe forum marketplace addiction. I go to bed around 0030. Get up at 0500 just about every working day. I tell myself "I'll go to sleep early tonight". I told myself that today. Lol. It sucks.

Seinfeld said it best. "Night guy screws over day guy."

 

:wink:

 

I made this offer to COMM BLOC, and then figured that I'd extend it to the rest of the AK forum:

A few years back, I grew some valerian plants and tinctured the roots in grain alcohol. However, unlike a lot of other herbs I grow, I never really had occasion to use it myself. I sold or gave a few bottles away, and the rest is still sitting in my basement. It's supposed to help with insomnia, but like I said earlier in this thread, theanine and red wine does enough for me.

Fair warning: valerian root smells and tastes nasty (like unwashed feet fwiw)... But it's organically grown and as natural as you can get.

It's packaged in 2 oz. amber glass bottles, with dropper caps.

I'd gladly take a mag or two (7.62x39 or Bulgarian/Russian 5.56) or some ammo of similar calibers in trade, but don't stress over that. If insomnia is a problem for you, just let me know you're interested in trying valerian and PM me your address...

-otus

 

Valerian=nature's benzo. The good stuff does work.

 

I used Valerian root capsules to help a parent suffering from sun-downers syndrome for over two years. Two capsules or three did the trick every night.
I was told you can break open the capsules and make hot tea, but I never tried that. Stuff works with no side effects

 

Sir,
Please see a healthcare professional for medical advise. I am a certified nurse practitioner and treat insomnia in patients at least half a dozen times a day. So many causes need to be looked into (Anxiety, Stress, Sleep Apnea, etc., etc.). However, in the interim... Your fellow members have offered some good advise as well. That being recognized, sleep hygiene is one of the most important changes you can do for your sleep problems. I can Rx the strongest benzo to put you out but eventually they will not be as effective and you are in the same situation, sleepless. Other classes of meds include TCA's in low doses, as well as the newer purified tonins (mela) like Rozerem and others being introduced almost monthly. Until you see your PA, NP or MD, Melatonin 10mg and 500 of Valerian Root can be quite effective in combination with better sleep habits. Use of anti histamines for sleep is not advised as a long term solution, as these can leave you with AM headaches, etc. Avoiding stress, kids, wives, mistresses, caffeine, and liberal cable news 4 hours prior to bedtime does not hurt either Please do not accept this as sound medical advise as you are not technically my patient and I do not know what, if any medications or other exacerbating medical diagnosis may be contributing to your sleep problems.