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Discussion Starter #1
Is'nt this Rivet supposed to be pushed in?
 

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Yeah. Looks like the receiver wasn't dimpled before the rivets were set on those two. Sloppy work on that IMO.
 

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everyone makes an occasional bo bo, i would just contact inrange if there is any sort of issue im sure he will make it right :smile:
 
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Sloppy work on that IMO
are you kidding me?? have you seen the entire gun?? if, IF there is a problem, Troy will take care of it but please dont bad mouth a LOT of hard work based on ONE rivet! thanks
 
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one more thing!
we used ORIGINAL Bulgarian flat head rivets. These are prone to splitting or crushing if squeezed any tighter. We would have been happy and would have preferred to use the round rivets like on the front trunion but we used what everyone wanted on the guns..ORIGINAL flat head rivets! Ill guarantee nothing is loose and as stated before, if something were to break, its warranted but their is nothing wrong with the rivets!
 

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MrMilitaryPolice said:
one more thing!
we used ORIGINAL Bulgarian flat head rivets. These are prone to splitting or crushing if squeezed any tighter. We would have been happy and would have preferred to use the round rivets like on the front trunion but we used what everyone wanted on the guns..ORIGINAL flat head rivets! Ill guarantee nothing is loose and as stated before, if something were to break, its warranted but their is nothing wrong with the rivets!

Not trying to hijack, just trying to understand.

You guys build these all the time. A rivet swells in the hole and so does not have to be "perfect" to be tight enough to never loosen, correct? In other words, as long as the rivet was good and smashed into the hole the rivet head does not necessarily have to be perfectly flush with the receiver, right?

Again, just trying to understand the process.
 

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MrMilitaryPolice said:
one more thing!
we used ORIGINAL Bulgarian flat head rivets. These are prone to splitting or crushing if squeezed any tighter. We would have been happy and would have preferred to use the round rivets like on the front trunion but we used what everyone wanted on the guns..ORIGINAL flat head rivets! Ill guarantee nothing is loose and as stated before, if something were to break, its warranted but their is nothing wrong with the rivets!

They are still supposed to be flush... like on my AK-103 with a side-folder, using flat head rivets...


No one is calling his work poor in general, he just made a mistake- Sidecar was referring to the work on those rivets... it is no big deal so long as the builder will fix it, and I know he will.
 

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MrMilitaryPolice said:
Sloppy work on that IMO
are you kidding me?? have you seen the entire gun?? if, IF there is a problem, Troy will take care of it but please dont bad mouth a LOT of hard work based on ONE rivet! thanks
There are two rivets in that pic that are not set well. That is the sloppy work I commented on. The one is really poorly done. Makes me wonder what kind of a hurry the builder was in to let that pass. The other one is less so, but it still looks like the receiver was not dimpled to recieve the rivet properly. No amount of crushing will fix it. With no dimple there, the rivet can not be properly set.
I'm just a home hobbiest. If I set a rivet poorly I mill the head down close, center punch it and drill it out and do it again.
Your excuses for it ring kind of hollow. It was a whoops on the builders part. Best to just admit to it, say you're sorry and make it right. I build high end custom bike upholstery for a living myself. I'm not perfect either. I have shipped out "whoop's" by mistake. But I wouldn't make excuses for it. I take the ribbing I've earned and make it up to the customer. That is what keeps people coming back to my business. I'm proud that in 12 years in business myself, I have had to do less than two dozen warranty rebuilds on seats. And most of those were caused by defective materials I was sold. But I built them, so I had to eat the problems they caused.
If you make a mistake, expect to have it pointed out. Ego's get in the way of good craftsmanship.
I know In Range has a great Rep. They have earned it. I've no doubt that they would fix it well too once it was brought to their attention. My comment was directed at those two poorly set rivets. That really spoiled the rest of the great craftsmanship that went into the rest of the rifle IMO. Had I bought that rifle, I'd have been disappointed.

But I am also a guy who has both his legs crushed in one night. I understand sh** happens and life isn't fair. But it's how you deal with your problems in life that determine your character. Excuses don't cut it.
 

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First of all Strfy send it back we will fix it. We always strive to make the customer happy. If we squeeze these too tight they split. Most people use a round head rivet and grind a flat on it. We chose to use the originals. Neither rivet will ever come loose. Look at original Bulgy receiver stubs and the flat head rivets are still a little rolled not mashed flat.

Second ,Sidecarnutz with your attitude I think you need to find another forum to visit!! Your home hobbiest knowledge SHOWS. NO factory ever dimpled receivers prior to installing rivets. The taperd shank on the rivet pulls the receiver into the hole. Also, did any of your customers come to a public forum and comment on "you denying problems and letting your ego get in the way of doing good work?" There are ways to handle things and you appearantly don't understand them. But what the hell, this isn't your rifle, is it?
 

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Can you believe those welds holding the stock together...I am amazed it didn't fall apart in shipping from Bulgaria. :wink:


Just trying to add a little levity.
 

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IN RANGE inc said:
Second ,Sidecarnutz with your attitude I think you need to find another forum to visit!! Your home hobbiest knowledge SHOWS. NO factory ever dimpled receivers prior to installing rivets. The taperd shank on the rivet pulls the receiver into the hole. Also, did any of your customers come to a public forum and comment on "you denying problems and letting your ego get in the way of doing good work?" There are ways to handle things and you appearantly don't understand them. But what the hell, this isn't your rifle, is it?
I'm a home hobbiest doing my own gunsmithing. I also have spent decades as a nuclear engineering tech. I have had way more engineering training than most gunsmiths ever see. After my legs were crushed I supplemented my earnings by doing bike upholstery. But I am still a welder, machinist and mechanical tech with alot of cross training in electrical engineering to boot. The sidecar body in my avatar was hand hammered from 16 and 18 gage steel. No English wheel was used. Built from scratch. I have experience working metals.
And my opinion on those rivets stands. That one especially looks awful. I can't believe you are calling me out on this. How can you defend that rivet? It is indefensible. :roll: But I am glad you'll be fixing it for the owner. That is the right thing to do.

Had that rifle been delivered to my FFL for me, I'd have contacted you right away and sent it back for re-work. I do try to be patient when stuff happens. I have had a few problems here with even the best vendors here that I have dealt with. But I take the problems to them first to be fixed. I would only comment negatively here IF the vendor didn't fix the problem. Compliment in public and complain in private is the best way to go. I have posted many kudos to the business's here I have dealt with that did a great job. And so far they are batting 1000 in fixing problems that have come up too.

But in this case the customer seems to have complained here before contacting you. That happens. I've had it happen to me too. But I didn't make excuses for poor work. I admitted to the mistake and fixed it.

My own work is frequently discussed on public bike forums. I have no paid advertising. I get my business from word of mouth and folks finding the little free site I run on Yahoo to show my work. So when I do mess up, I work to make it up to the customer. And yes my mistakes do get discussed when they happen. It's a small community that I serve. And they talk about my overnight warranty service and overnight FedEx shipping I use too. Many customers I had to do warranty work for when the problem was in my craftsmanship got free leather tool pouches back with their seat for their inconvienience. In my book, that's good customer service.

Just how does the tapered shank pull the rivet into the hole? I was under the impression the rivet head die holds it in place against the receiver as the shank then gets squeezed. The head must be firmly in place and the receiver dimpled for it all to work well together. Unless you have a tool that presses the rivet in hard to dimple the steel as it is set, the tapered head will just be floating above the surface and not doing its job as it is in that photo. I can't picture how a tool like that would work as the leverage is all wrong. The receiver could get bent vice dimpled. Especially heat treated steel like NDS uses. It is tough stuff.
I have no knowledge of the how the factory accomplishes it. I'll grant that you know more about it than I do. But your factory techniques seem to be lacking on that rivet. How many rivets like that does the Bulgy factory put out? There is a disparity here in worksmanship.
My experience is with my home made tooling and with my AKB tooling. If I have a rivet go bad while I am setting it, I remove it and start over.

I made the comment on ego's because that person was taking the problem personally IMO and seemed to have hurt feelings about it. If I am wrong on that, I apologize. The written word here with no face to face communication can be limiting. But I stand on that comment. If home builders like me can pick apart problems like this when they are posted, then you are shipping your problems out to customers. That means more work for you later to fix. And then stuff like this on public forums happens.

My original comment was that those rivets were poor work. I stand by that. That's a comment on the professionalism of how those rivets were set. It's not a personal attack. I see nothing wrong with calling a poor rivet a poor rivet.

I am heading out to a sidecar rally tomorrow for a few days. I'll check the board when I get back. If there is anything else you wish to talk to me about on this I'll be happy to respond then. Have a good weekend.
 

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I'm not defending anything. You act like we told strfy to get lost or something. My first post was the first time I saw the complaint. I told him we would fix it to his satisfaction. You are the one blowing the whole thing out of proportion and it dosent even belong to you. And yes I have been to an AK factory and no they do not dimple the receiver before installing rivets. I don't care what you have built or done it's more like you are blowing your own ego than anything. How about from now own you choose your comment about MY professionalism and character a little more wisely or find another forum to hang out on.
 

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I am not blowing up my ego. Just stating quals based on past experience. I'm a metal worker, not some cubicle dweller.

I am not blowing up the issue either. I have already stated I am glad you're fixing it for him.

I have one qualm bothering me though.
Mr Military Police stated there is nothing wrong with the rivets. He defended the job done on them. That means it is considered "good enough". So I can only assume the builder knew how they were set when it shipped out. That means it met minimum quality control specs.

My personal opinion. The spec needs raised. It obviously offended the customer and others here the way they were set. If you truly believed they were good enough, you'd refuse to rework them. But they will be reworked. So they weren't good enough after all. Good on you for fixing it though.

I'll try to not bother you guys ever again. And I'll avoid comments on threads covering your products. I can't believe this. All this trouble over a couple of poor rivets. Yeesh.

If the mods would prefer me to leave, I will. Not my board afterall. But I believe everything I wrote about here was quite within reason.
 

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What bothers me is that YOU questioned my professionalism and character here not the rifle. I can take critisism over my work but the other I will not stand for. Wheter you stay or go is not up to the mods. It's up to myself and the four others that own this board.
 

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:shock: I am extemely schocked about those 2 rivets, 1 is totally sub-standard, the other is in my opinion not even worth being called a rivet!
Also the weld that i see, is about the worst weld i have ever seen! If i would have purchased this gun and as soon as i would have seen any of the 3 previous problems, it would have been returned ASAP at the mgrs.
expense! We are only talking about 1 gun which was messed up in 3 areas
by In-range! I also believe that in-range took this pers. as far as their work goes, which in this case was totally sub-standard!
Sidecarnutz was in no way manner or fashion rude or disrespectful
to anybody, but simply spoke the truth.
I am very offended by Sidecarnutz being told by In-range in 2 posts, to
basically find another forum! Due to the fact that In-range is on staff, and
also Mr. military police seems to be involved with these guns!
Where i come from a piece of junk is just that!
I guess my post will also get me in trouble with the AK forum GESTAPO!
I AM NOT TRYING TO GET ANYTHING GOING OR GET ANYBODY UPSET!JUST CANT BELIEVE AS TO HOW DISRESPRECTFUL SIDECARNUTZ WAS TREATED! Thank you!

So is everybody who comments about poor quality on any In-range product going to be kicked off the board?
This is so childish, immature and totally un-professional!
 
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