AK Rifles banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
719 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I don't know if there has been a discussion on this but I've always wondered about the Russian VAL. I'm not sure if this is the correct name for it or not but my brother bought Jane's Gun Diary about 6 years ago and it was in there. Here's some pics I found. It shoots a 9x39mm I guess it sounds pretty cool. Also what do you guys think of these krinks.









 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,437 Posts
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as10-e.htm

Click through the list. They go over all the variants you pictured.

The 9x39mm fires a 250gr. AP bullet. It is slow but as the Russian soldiers commented "It knocks those Chechnians flat". It is claimed to be effective on all types of human body armor to 400 Meters, but it has a rainbow trajectory and accuracy isn't too good.

For a close range weapon, though, it is excellent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,239 Posts
that would be like 2 9mm bullets stacked together. i wonder if it yaws and breaks at the cannelure like a 223? otherwise it's just like shooting a makarov, a 9mm hole is a 9mm hole when you're subsonic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
http://world.guns.ru/ammo/sp-e.htm

SP-5 and SP-6 subsonic assault rifle ammunition
Next line of development, also initiated by Spetsnaz requirements, also involved silenced weapons, but in more powerful form. Since the effective range of silenced pistols is severely limited, scout and Spetsnaz elements of the Soviet army originally employed AK and AKM rifles, fitted with detachable sound suppressors (silencers) and loaded with special versions of 7.62x39 M43 ammo, known as 7.62x39 US (Umenshennaya Skorost ? Low velocity). To achieve subsonic velocity along with acceptable ballistics, these cartridges were loaded with heavier bullets, but its performance was still inadequate. So, during the late 1980s, soviet designers developed improved sub-sonic ammunition, suitable for specially designed automatic weapons. These cartridges, known as SP-5 and SP-6, were based on a 7.62x39 M43 case, necked-out to 9mm, and loaded with heavy, streamlined bullets. The SP-5 cartridge was loaded with standard ?ball? bullet with lead core, and was intended for accurate sniper work out to 300-400 meters. The SP-6 cartridge featured an armour-piercing bullet with hardened steel core, which could defeat typical military type body armour at the ranges of up to 300-400 meters. Two weapons were initially developed for this ammunition, both based on the same receiver and gas operated action ? VSS sniper rifle and AS assault rifle. Both weapons were selective fired, with integral sound suppressors, and used same magazines with 10- or 20-round capacity. Latter on, several more weapons were developed for 9x39 ammunition, such as SR-3 and 9A-91 compact assault rifles, used by elite Internal Affairs Ministry, Police and State Security units. The one problem, associated with 9x39, as well as with most other special purpose cartridges, is that such ammunition is usually quite expensive. An attempt was made during late 1990s to produce much cheaper 9x39 AP loading, designated as PAB-9. This cartridge featured bullets with stamped (instead of machined) steel cores, as well as increased driving surfaces. As a result, accuracy was poor and barrel wear significantly increased, so this ammunition is apparently no longer in use.
 
G

·
mrmoshzilla said:
that would be like 2 9mm bullets stacked together. i wonder if it yaws and breaks at the cannelure like a 223? otherwise it's just like shooting a makarov, a 9mm hole is a 9mm hole when you're subsonic.
Not exactly. Remember, you are talking about the same velocity but twice the mass of a 125gr. round.


ETA, a 125gr 9mm at 1100 fps gives you a muzzle energy of about 335. A 250gr gives you about 670. (This is within .44 Mag. range.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,239 Posts
BiggerStick47 said:
mrmoshzilla said:
that would be like 2 9mm bullets stacked together. i wonder if it yaws and breaks at the cannelure like a 223? otherwise it's just like shooting a makarov, a 9mm hole is a 9mm hole when you're subsonic.
Not exactly. Remember, you are talking about the same velocity but twice the mass of a 125gr. round.


ETA, a 125gr 9mm at 1100 fps gives you a muzzle energy of about 335. A 250gr gives you about 670. (This is within .44 Mag. range.)
but twice the mass doesn't matter if it's poking the same size hole. at sub sonic you're not going to be doing any kind of permanent cavity, or even much of a temporary one. so it's just a 9mm hole unless it's yawing or something. numbers for energy delivered is misleading with fmj/ball, most of the energy just keeps on going out the back of the target. I really think they just put more weight on it to make it more accurate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,437 Posts
The 9x18mm Makarov is known for actually being stopped by heavy winter clothing.

The 9x39mm is known for knocking Chechnian soldiers on their arse BETTER than the 5.45x39.5mm and BETTER than the 7.62x39mm.



Your comparison isn't right.
 
G

·
MM, first of we do not know what kind of bullets the Russians are using. I'm sure they have multiple loads. Second, tissue damage is increased, even with FMJ, when mass is increased. By dropping the velocity you also decrease the chance of the bullet passing through the target. Energy is useless unless it is deposited into the intended target. You are assuming that the round is passing through the target, not depositing all of it's energy. This is one of the problems with fast FMJs. It's not that the round CAN'T produce massive tissue damage, it's that it doesn't because it doesn't realease all it's energy within the target. Example: A 125 gr. bullet at 1100 fps passes through it's target only distributing 50% of it's energy: 167.5 pounds. A 250 gr FMJ at 1100 fps also passes through it's target depositing 50% of it's energy: 335 pounds. There is a real tangible difference.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top