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The ad could be a little misleading to some...but he does state that these are rifles built from part kits..with Russian engravings...thats it. Probably a Bulgy or Romy kit built up with Russian markings to look like a nice "clone." His engravings do look better then some I have seen out there though. Not that bad of a price IMO...for what you get
 

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They're obviously not Russian nor does the seller (Wellco Arms, I think) state they're Russian. He's states they're examples of and does the normal amount of descriptive detail on the build that most sellers seem to do. They're simply kit-built rifles (the AKS-74 looks like it was on a Bulgarian kit; the AKMS from part of a Romanian kit).

The seller periodically offers rifles like this on the auction. He probably could've done a better job on the some of the markings but the rifles will eventually sell more than likely. It is a very carefully worded description but it does tell you what the deal is with them.
 

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I am new to this hobby :

The folding AK-74 clone looks good.

Newly Manufactured Example.
Assembled in the U.S.A.
U.S. made Furniture.
A. U.S.A. 1.0mm Premium Receiver.

How can one say this guy is trying to pull the wool over your Eyes ?

I think the seller very plainly tells the buyer whet he is getting here in all fairness

And I would like to add I think it's a real nice Russian clone or example that I would feel good about adding to my collection.

I also think it's worth what he is asking for it, very nice engraving work.

P.S. Maybe one can be fooled to think it was built on a Russian kit, but a real Russian kit would cost more then he is asking for the whole rifle.
 

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Alfred said:
I am new to this hobby :

The folding AK-74 clone looks good.

Newly Manufactured Example.
Assembled in the U.S.A.
U.S. made Furniture.
A. U.S.A. 1.0mm Premium Receiver.

How can one say this guy is trying to pull the wool over your Eyes ?

I think the seller very plainly tells the buyer whet he is getting here in all fairness

And I would like to add I think it's a real nice Russian clone or example that I would feel good about adding to my collection.

I also think it's worth what he is asking for it, very nice engraving work.
+1 to that..exactly what I said...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
For all you fans of the CLASSIC, Russian, Vietnam Era, and "Red Dawn" style of Under-folding stock,laminated furniture, 7.62x39mm, AKMS Rifles...we bring you THIS. Which has been newly assembled, by WACo,by using a VERY sharp, prob un-issued, all numbers matching, AKMS Rifle kit to build this caliber 7.62x39mm, 922r compliant, SEMI-AUTO-ONLY, Izhvsk Arsenal marked Rifle, which has been assembled onto an all riveted, NDS/DCI, receiver that is identical to the original Russian receiver in all respects. The 16" long chrome lined, threaded barrel is shiny and bright and is equipped with the standard Russian, slant brake. The front hand guards and pistol grip are a dark, purple-red finish, laminated Birch. The Russian style, under folding paratrooper stock, is the type that has locking lugs on both sides for very tight lockup. Properly engraved with the Russian "semi" and "full auto" selector positions. Test fired in our factory with 10 rounds and able to accept hi-cap AK-47 mags and drums.(please KNOW that it is legal to own in your State BEFORE bidding on it.) The Rifle is painted with oven baked and solvent resistant, Gun Kote(TM,) over hot dip parkerizing, for a long lasting OEM style finish. Furnished with, one 30-rd steel magazine, shipped in a hard case, with the WACo., one year warranty. SHIPPING: To an FFL, Only, anywhere in the Continental USA via insured ground. You can provide us with a Credit Card and have the EXACT shipping billed to your account, at the time of shipment. PAYMENT: USPS Money orders, or Visa, Master Card or Discover for an additional 3%. In stock for immediate shipment. Sorry, NO C&R licenses transfers on this item.Note* No sales to either Ca.,NY.,or NJ. Sorry, NO customer pick-ups. NOTE* The one you see is the one you get. WOLVERINES!
This description is EXTREMELY misleading, and bad business practice if you ask me, it should say, build on a Romanian Matching Kit.

Anyway, the main reason I posted the thread was because I jsut picked up some PLO kits and the kits were more than those rifles are listed for, so I was just wondering what was up, now I know :D
 

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So what PLO kits did you pick up?
 

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For the price he is asking, these are not a bad deal!!!

Good luck finding somebody to build you a Russian clone cheaper.
 

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Pictures can be misleading as to the quality of a build...they're not "fakes", but they are clones...I too was attracted to the offerings but when I specifically requested what type of kits were used on these listings, the only reply I got was a copy of the Gunbroker description, which if you note, doesn't give those details...I'm not saying it's a ruse, but when a perspective customer asks a specific question, a specific answer should be given...there's another thread on this in the General discussion forum...take a look, it might be helpful.
 

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The biggest givaway is the akms wasnt produced after 77..
 

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Discussion Starter #13
jithaca said:
So what PLO kits did you pick up?
I got a 75 Izzy Fixed Stock, an AKMS Underfolder from BigAL, and a Ruski Type III from 54 w/ a Bulgarian SLR100H receiver :D
 

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akraider said:
Pictures can be misleading as to the quality of a build...they're not "fakes", but they are clones...I too was attracted to the offerings but when I specifically requested what type of kits were used on these listings, the only reply I got was a copy of the Gunbroker description, which if you note, doesn't give those details...I'm not saying it's a ruse, but when a perspective customer asks a specific question, a specific answer should be given...there's another thread on this in the General discussion forum...take a look, it might be helpful.
My crappy looking build statement was from the picture of the 74 sidefolder cutout and rivets, pretty rough coming from merchant builder.

The price probably isn't that far off though with the price of parts these days.
 

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I think they are both very nice looking rifles. I guess if you are trying to clone something to the tee, you could have an argument. However they look great to me and those arnt bad prices.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The fact that this guy will only send a copy of his description to people asking questions shows that he is absolutely trying to pass these off as US builds of real russian parts kits.

I will mark his username down on my blacklist for sure :D
 

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Cool. But I don't think that's what they're doing, though. It appears the description spells-out basically what the rifles are. If someone thinks they're buying a Russian AKS-74 or Russian AKMS from those auctions, then that buyer probably has no business buying them at all if he doesn't do his basic homework before purchasing. Far too often guys just buy blindly and wildly then do the "What did I buy" post. You've always got to do a little research.

I wouldn't get too sensitive about it.
 

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p

Like i always say do your'e research before you buy & ask question's here you'll find out all you need to know..
 

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What caliri said...this place has been nothing but a giant +1 for me to get answers to my questions...sometimes even when I didn't know what to ask, exactly.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
rayman1 said:
Cool. But I don't think that's what they're doing, though. It appears the description spells-out basically what the rifles are. If someone thinks they're buying a Russian AKS-74 or Russian AKMS from those auctions, then that buyer probably has no business buying them at all if he doesn't do his basic homework before purchasing. Far too often guys just buy blindly and wildly then do the "What did I buy" post. You've always got to do a little research.

I wouldn't get too sensitive about it.

Im not worried about it, in fact the thread had nothing to do with the integrity of the seller to begin with :D The point is, you shouldnt have to do a bunch of research just to find out what your buying, it should be in the description :D If somebody did soemthing like that there the mods would have his account :D
 
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