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Discussion Starter #1
I'm going to be building a Russian 1982 AKS-74 clone soon and want to make it dead on for the year, but like many people I've had little to no hands on with a original Rusky. So I have some questions about the parkerized under finish. First, what type was used; magnesium, phosphorus, zinc, ect? Second, When did they start and stop park and paint? (that is, if they stopped at all) Lastly, can I put a partially assembled gun into park? This question mostly pertains to that I will have a chrome lined barrel and don't want to mess it up if I do dunk the whole thing.

(also I realize this could become a bash the new, dumb guy thread)

Thanks for your future input
 

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neither. they did not use parkerizing.

they used phosphating spray-on primer VL-02. it's chemically self-curing.

as far as i know Izhmash still using this very same practice.
if you have saiga you will see that only areas not painted are rear sight leaf. front sight drum, fire controls. you will see that those have light gray finish that ooks like extremely fine sand-paper. so that's it. that's VL-02 finish.

closest thing i could find to VL-02 is KG 4000 K-Phos
Phosphate Coating - 4000 K-Phos Pretreatment

however if you park and then paint it would be very strong finish too. only thing is that park is thicker than VL-02 coat.
 

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You have found Forum greatness... Nobody here plays the "bash the new guy" garbage...

You are a fellow brother interested in Russian AK's... Not many of us around and we tend to nurture our young...lol

Welcome to the Forum... Incredibly knowledge guys here and great information... Just like Mike's response to your question, where else you going to find an answer like that...
 
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I've been messing around with a zinc based self-etching primer and it looks pretty close. dnepr0mike has pointed you in the best direction though and I'll be getting some of that to test for when I start my Izzy AKM.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So do Saigas already have VL-02 under their factory paint?
 

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So do Saigas already have VL-02 under their factory paint?
as far as i know-yes.
they literally produce them side by side on the same production line. there is a video on youtube of izhmash production facilities. you can see AKs and saigas in the racks waiting next to each other to go to the next production stage. it's russian video, not specific to saiga production but to AKs and izhmash in general. looks like something came off TV program.
that's why i always said - for a top quality AK (albeit in sporting config) you can not go better than Saiga. other than real Izhmash AK. obviously same goes for Veprs. which are made at Degtyarev plant in Kovrov. that was manufacturing MGs for USSR/Russian army for nearly 100 years. Kovrov factory is know as first adopter of newest and most cutting edge technologies. Izhmash role is more of a bulk producer. they have ability and means to really mass-produce stuff quickly and efficiently. although izhmash has their own KB, several actually, and they do lot's of own R&D as well.

according to my research Kovrov factory was first one to adopt/improve rotary cold hammer forging process in USSR for large caliber machine guns. after WW2 when soviets with their spoils of war brought from Europe these new and amazing rotary hammer forging machines, Kovrov techs 'went to town'. Now they can produce quality barrels on the scale and with a speed not possible before and with much lower defect rate.

Kovrov also (at least partially) responsible for adopting rotary forging for small caliber barrel manufacturing. back in the 70s when AK-74 development ran into issue of barrel longevity with new high pressure 5.45 round. button rifled barrels were just 2-4k rounds shy or required round count longevity. it's around that same time Izhmash also adopts rotary cold hammer forging for ALL their production guns. INCLUDING EVEN pellet guns.
 

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The closest we get around here is re-education for know it all who roll in the door to teach us how wonderful the ras47 is and how antiquated we all are for loving Russian guns.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I heard the RAS47 is great. It has this new self-disassembling technology, after you fire several mags the rifle falls apart for easy cleaning.
 

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neither. they did not use parkerizing.

they used phosphating spray-on primer VL-02. it's chemically self-curing.

as far as i know Izhmash still using this very same practice.
if you have saiga you will see that only areas not painted are rear sight leaf. front sight drum, fire controls. you will see that those have light gray finish that ooks like extremely fine sand-paper. so that's it. that's VL-02 finish.

closest thing i could find to VL-02 is KG 4000 K-Phos
Phosphate Coating - 4000 K-Phos Pretreatment

however if you park and then paint it would be very strong finish too. only thing is that park is thicker than VL-02 coat.
Thanks for the letting us know about that product. Is it capable of being sprayed with an airbrush? What's the preferred method of application?

Welcome to the forum AKsinAK. This is the place you have been looking for. Great members and info here.
 

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Thanks for the letting us know about that product. Is it capable of being sprayed with an airbrush? What's the preferred method of application?

Welcome to the forum AKsinAK. This is the place you have been looking for. Great members and info here.
K-Phos is suppose to be applied with a spray gun or dipping. I use the KG system for my ARs and 1911s and it`s really awesome. Takes a little more work then Cerakote or Duracoat but well worth the extra effort. The finish is extremely durable. Just so you know that when you apply K-Phos it will not turn your metals color. It`s clear and does two things. It kinda acid etches the metal while also protecting the white metal from corrosion. You can take a clean piece of iron(metal) and apply K-Phos, leave it in a humid steam filled bathroom and it won`t rust for several days. I think some people have the idea it will change the metal and make it kinda like parkerizing(dark grey sandpaper like finish) but it does`t. Just a FYI...... I wish I had one of my 1911`s here to show you how the finish holds up. I have @1500 rounds through my pistol and there is no noticeable finish wear to the rails. I currently work and stay part time in a communist state so the right to keep and bear arms have been stripped from us. When I get home I`ll take some pics and post them if anyone is interested. A lot of builders who say they have their own special finish for their guns use KG Gunkote. I use KG dry lube in extreme cold situations where you have to run your gun dry and have never had ANY metal to metal wear. I like it a lot and no I don`t work for them, LOL. PEACE !
 

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K-Phos is suppose to be applied with a spray gun or dipping. I use the KG system for my ARs and 1911s and it`s really awesome. Takes a little more work then Cerakote or Duracoat but well worth the extra effort. The finish is extremely durable. Just so you know that when you apply K-Phos it will not turn your metals color. It`s clear and does two things. It kinda acid etches the metal while also protecting the white metal from corrosion. You can take a clean piece of iron(metal) and apply K-Phos, leave it in a humid steam filled bathroom and it won`t rust for several days. I think some people have the idea it will change the metal and make it kinda like parkerizing(dark grey sandpaper like finish) but it does`t. Just a FYI...... I wish I had one of my 1911`s here to show you how the finish holds up. I have @1500 rounds through my pistol and there is no noticeable finish wear to the rails. I currently work and stay part time in a communist state so the right to keep and bear arms have been stripped from us. When I get home I`ll take some pics and post them if anyone is interested. A lot of builders who say they have their own special finish for their guns use KG Gunkote. I use KG dry lube in extreme cold situations where you have to run your gun dry and have never had ANY metal to metal wear. I like it a lot and no I don`t work for them, LOL. PEACE !
i would advice against dipping.

air brushes differ. there are fine detail airbrushes with tiny nozzles - those might have a problem with the thickness of the k-phos. not that is very thick, but it's thicker than most airbrush paints.
i got this from HB Quick-Change Airbrush Kit
it's not a feed-through brush and there are pain flow adjustment that can help with varying thickness coatings
 

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i would advice against dipping.

air brushes differ. there are fine detail airbrushes with tiny nozzles - those might have a problem with the thickness of the k-phos. not that is very thick, but it's thicker than most airbrush paints.
i got this from HB Quick-Change Airbrush Kit
it's not a feed-through brush and there are pain flow adjustment that can help with varying thickness coatings
OK, I`v personally never dipped myself, I use a gravity feed Master SB88 airbrush myself and have never had a problem with the thickest of coatings but I can see where some brushes will have trouble. The reason I said dipped is because that is the preferred method from KG if you can`t spray it on. Those brushes you`r suggesting seem like a great deal. You can`t go wrong for $10, even if you had to buy a new one for each project, LOL.
Have you had issues with dipping K-Phos ? What kind ?
 

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OK, I`v personally never dipped myself, I use a gravity feed Master SB88 airbrush myself and have never had a problem with the thickest of coatings but I can see where some brushes will have trouble. The reason I said dipped is because that is the preferred method from KG if you can`t spray it on. Those brushes you`r suggesting seem like a great deal. You can`t go wrong for $10, even if you had to buy a new one for each project, LOL.
Have you had issues with dipping K-Phos ? What kind ?
not me personally. but i've heard at least one guy complaining. if you do dip let us know how it went.
 
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