Over on the other forum, one guy maintained that the Russian Army was going to adopt 5.56 x 45, apparently to replace 5.45 x 39. This is the first that I've heard of this. Is there any truth to the report or is it internet hot air?
Russia to Adopt 5.56?
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Upon reflection, I believe that you are right.JOHNO said:
I did read somewhere that the Russians were going to adopt the 9 x 19 to replace the 9 x 18, after considering bringing back the 7.62 x 25. Perhaps this is what the original poster really meant.
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Yes, the Russains just adopted a pistol in 9x19mm as their new service pistol, but buying new pistols is a lot different than replacing millions and millions of perfectly serviceable AK-74's in 5.45mm.
The Russians can't afford it right now even if they wanted to.
The Russians can't afford it right now even if they wanted to.
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I read an article on the new Russian/Chineese pistol being developed. I think it was in SGN several months back. From what I remember it fires a 5.8mm round and the barrel will be swapable to fire 9x19. The 5.8mm I assume is following the same idea as the FN five seven round. From pictures of the Chineese testing it looked like the 5.8mm bullet performed like the 5.45x39. The other side of the testing medium looked like the bullet had exited sideways. The 5.8 would be used against armored troops and could be converted to 9x19 for unarmored troops.
I also heard the rumors of them going to .223. Right now the US/NATO is looking to exchange the .223 possibly for a 6.8 or 6.5. I think Russia will see that and try to improve the 7.62x39 round instead of going to .223. By improving I think they'll keep the same casing and go with a 90-110gr .311 bullet or if they can afford it neck down the casing and go with a slimmer bullet. The 6.5 grendel would be perfect for them. So my guess would be if they switch to a new round it will look very similar to the 6.5 grendel. That is if they can afford it. If not then I think we'll see lighter weight 7.62x39s.
I also heard the rumors of them going to .223. Right now the US/NATO is looking to exchange the .223 possibly for a 6.8 or 6.5. I think Russia will see that and try to improve the 7.62x39 round instead of going to .223. By improving I think they'll keep the same casing and go with a 90-110gr .311 bullet or if they can afford it neck down the casing and go with a slimmer bullet. The 6.5 grendel would be perfect for them. So my guess would be if they switch to a new round it will look very similar to the 6.5 grendel. That is if they can afford it. If not then I think we'll see lighter weight 7.62x39s.
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i'm not just being contrary to Xenogy when i say that there is NO REAL IMPROVEMENT OR ADVANTAGE to 762x39 in trajectory or striking energy , 0 -500M or 600M , going with a lighter bullet . in fact it is worse even at just 300M .
there is modest improvement in 762 with an 123gr Hornady v-max type bullet @nominal velocity that has a ~.330 G1 BC instead of the original m43= .300 G1 BC .
there is great improvement in remaining energy , but not trajectory , with a 150/155gr OTM type bullet with a .400+ G1 BC at 2100fps . curiously , the trajectories and TOF is very similar to standard too 500M
the BC of the wolf 154gr SoftPointBT is only about .218 G5 (m43=.194G5) and its trajectory differs little from standard buy haveing a 15" MRT too 300M (m43=12.5") , and only inches more drop to 500M
from a neckeddown 762x39 case , a 100gr 6mm bullet with G1 BC=.500 has much greater remaining energy at 500/600M and improved trajectory starting out with only 2475 fps MV . the 6x39 already exists in custom dies and would require only a barrel-swap .
the russian "improved" 762x39 round that MTK alluded too in THC interview is nothing more than Wolf with a hardened steelcore and 4mm tipspace .
there is modest improvement in 762 with an 123gr Hornady v-max type bullet @nominal velocity that has a ~.330 G1 BC instead of the original m43= .300 G1 BC .
there is great improvement in remaining energy , but not trajectory , with a 150/155gr OTM type bullet with a .400+ G1 BC at 2100fps . curiously , the trajectories and TOF is very similar to standard too 500M
the BC of the wolf 154gr SoftPointBT is only about .218 G5 (m43=.194G5) and its trajectory differs little from standard buy haveing a 15" MRT too 300M (m43=12.5") , and only inches more drop to 500Mfrom a neckeddown 762x39 case , a 100gr 6mm bullet with G1 BC=.500 has much greater remaining energy at 500/600M and improved trajectory starting out with only 2475 fps MV . the 6x39 already exists in custom dies and would require only a barrel-swap .
the russian "improved" 762x39 round that MTK alluded too in THC interview is nothing more than Wolf with a hardened steelcore and 4mm tipspace .
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The US or Nato for that matter is not looking to replace the 5.56 with the 6.8 or 6.5 for the same reasons Templar listed the russian won't replace the 5.45 AK74s. That was alot of clever marketing done by those who "developed" the round. I remember the same rumors were being said about "Special Ops" changing over to the 6.8 round over thier current AR 5.56 platform rifles.Xenogy said:
Then the truth was out of the bag when a Knights won a contract for a shipment of SR25s.
The 6.8 and Grendal will never see any combat, thier only geared to the civ market. With the current loads for the 5.56 their is no reason to switch.
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Wolf? What the hell are you talking about?freerangeYODA said:
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what the hell am i talking about ?
where the hell have you been buddy ?
i would have to go all the way back to the begginings of the first gulf war to cover the whole story . but , in a more recent vein ...
do you remember TheHistoryChannel interview with Mr MTK ? do you remember exactly what he said concerning the generals who wanted the 5.45 x39 IMPROVED over Mr. MTK objections . that in his opinion , the 7.62x39 IMPROVED was a much more effective round .
now , you know what IMPROVED means with the 7n6 5.45 ? they are talking about the heavy rear weight bias caused by that infamous tipspace . the same for the 762x39 IMPROVED . Wolf FMJBT is the improved 762x39 M43 round , without a steelcore .
Wolf and GoldenTiger are such , 'improved' M43 .
Ulyanovsks' 8m1 nipple bullet and 8M2 FMJ are the 'improved' 762x39 M67 design .
Wolf and Barnaul 5.45x39 FMJBT are the improved rounds without steel cores .
GoldenTigers' 5.45 FMJ is similar to the leadcore Uly improved rounds with a smaller tipspace .
due too the ATF exersizing extra constitutional powers in banning steelcore 762x39 ammo , they forced the russians to leave out the steelcore from the their commercial ammo sold here , both 7.62 and 5.45 , which unwittingly cause the creation of much more lethal ammo than the Soviets designed in the first place .
thats what the hell i'm talkin 'bout .
go read in my posts about " " explained ammo or , just look at the pictures anyway .
where the hell have you been buddy ?
i would have to go all the way back to the begginings of the first gulf war to cover the whole story . but , in a more recent vein ...
do you remember TheHistoryChannel interview with Mr MTK ? do you remember exactly what he said concerning the generals who wanted the 5.45 x39 IMPROVED over Mr. MTK objections . that in his opinion , the 7.62x39 IMPROVED was a much more effective round .
now , you know what IMPROVED means with the 7n6 5.45 ? they are talking about the heavy rear weight bias caused by that infamous tipspace . the same for the 762x39 IMPROVED . Wolf FMJBT is the improved 762x39 M43 round , without a steelcore .
Wolf and GoldenTiger are such , 'improved' M43 .
Ulyanovsks' 8m1 nipple bullet and 8M2 FMJ are the 'improved' 762x39 M67 design .
Wolf and Barnaul 5.45x39 FMJBT are the improved rounds without steel cores .
GoldenTigers' 5.45 FMJ is similar to the leadcore Uly improved rounds with a smaller tipspace .
due too the ATF exersizing extra constitutional powers in banning steelcore 762x39 ammo , they forced the russians to leave out the steelcore from the their commercial ammo sold here , both 7.62 and 5.45 , which unwittingly cause the creation of much more lethal ammo than the Soviets designed in the first place .
thats what the hell i'm talkin 'bout .
go read in my posts about " " explained ammo or , just look at the pictures anyway .
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i'm not sure friendly or unfriendly applies .
as far as i'm concerned , " what the hell are you talking about" is a legitimate question . sometimes real men are gruff . no problem here . answer given .
what i consider illegitimate is when some bozo tells me i'm full of BS when in fact he doesnt even understand whats being discussed . generally they have some continuously evolving argument that has to do with a deer they or their uncle shot , once , a while back or a box of boolets they once had or reloaded or something .
as far as i'm concerned , " what the hell are you talking about" is a legitimate question . sometimes real men are gruff . no problem here . answer given .
what i consider illegitimate is when some bozo tells me i'm full of BS when in fact he doesnt even understand whats being discussed . generally they have some continuously evolving argument that has to do with a deer they or their uncle shot , once , a while back or a box of boolets they once had or reloaded or something .
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