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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently picked up a russian tokarev mismatch and want to find out if it was refurbed/refinished.

Slide and barrel are both 1945 Izhevsk. Wartime expedient wood grips, tons of stamps all over the gun.
The serials are still sharp and dont seem to have been polished. In fact you can still see where metal has been raised around the numbers. But i wouldn’t expect all the other stamps on a wartime gun where they wanted them out the door ASAP.

any experts please chime in
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I don't know but just wanted to say, very nice gun. Thank you for posting.
 

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I recently picked up a russian tokarev mismatch and want to find out if it was refurbed/refinished.

Slide and barrel are both 1945 Izhevsk. Wartime expedient wood grips, tons of stamps all over the gun.
The serials are still sharp and dont seem to have been polished. In fact you can still see where metal has been raised around the numbers. But i wouldn’t expect all the other stamps on a wartime gun where they wanted them out the door ASAP.

any experts please chime in View attachment 320036 View attachment 320037 View attachment 320038 View attachment 320039 View attachment 320040 View attachment 320041
 

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I have been a long time TOK Collector & have owned & read all that I could on this subject ? And have, at one time or another owned all of them, except the North Korean Type 68 ! Duncan Long has a book on the subject, that is about as exhaustive as possible ,on the markings, dates, variants as exists on the subject ! Saying all this, I looked your gun over & I believe this to be a genuine late wartime arsenal manufacture or remanufactured pistol ! Many things did & did not take place during this time of Total War, that were out of the ordinary ? The Soviets were on the move as much & as fast as possible toward Berlin ! Especially, the armaments manufacturers & their approval & proofing as well as the documentation~registration & distribution networks ! I highly suspect these to be some of these extra markings you mentioned & the extra or the additional ones ? Thisis what makes some wartime weapons so valuable compared to the standard production & procured ones, it is these extra markings. As well as the poorer finishes & undone or not-completed processes that in some cases makes them truly rare ! This is especially true of the Germans & what they had control over during ( late wartime ) ! Making some guns truly rare & worth thousands of dollars extra now ? The reason for this is that the Germans kept meticulous records & were highly organized till the very end ! The Soviets were not or won't tell to this day what some of their wartime coding was for on specific weapons etc.? That said, your Tokarev, is of significantly more value & rarer than a pre or post war Tokarev & even ( most ),wartime ones ! I would put it in the $1500 to & 2000 dollar range & that increasing every years there won't be any more 1945 year model pistols made & with no-import markings to boot, it is a keeper just as it is ! Arsenal rework or not & it may be worth more if it is a wartime or era rework ! Some Kreighof Nazi era reworks are worth twice as much & rarer than than a standard one ! Another example is the ware time Dura-aLuminum P-38"s & the Grey Ghost P-38"s ! And the B-Series Nazi era Checkoslovakian model 38 w/saftey added ! Another two, that come to mind is the Saur 38H thats of too many wartime variants to list & the Hungarian Frommer Pistols with both safety & caliber changes ? These changes in the norm make them of considerable more rarity & value than their standard models ! I could go on & on but let me say this one of the most knowledgeable folks I've ever known was Sydnis Rachwal & his son David Rachwal they are truly experts in this feld ! David Rachwal has a website Handguns of the World just type in his name ! He should know much more than I do hope this helps you out ?
Sincerely & Respectfully !
JOHN D WATSON
 

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What a nice TT-33.

I really like the two tone finish, all the little markings/stamps and those wood grips. It's a nice looker. Refurb or not, I'd own it and shoot it.

We have some good knowledgeable members here but I would also post the same question and pics over at Gunboards Forums . If you do, please post your results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have been a long time TOK Collector & have owned & read all that I could on this subject ? And have, at one time or another owned all of them, except the North Korean Type 68 ! Duncan Long has a book on the subject, that is about as exhaustive as possible ,on the markings, dates, variants as exists on the subject ! Saying all this, I looked your gun over & I believe this to be a genuine late wartime arsenal manufacture or remanufactured pistol ! Many things did & did not take place during this time of Total War, that were out of the ordinary ? The Soviets were on the move as much & as fast as possible toward Berlin ! Especially, the armaments manufacturers & their approval & proofing as well as the documentation~registration & distribution networks ! I highly suspect these to be some of these extra markings you mentioned & the extra or the additional ones ? Thisis what makes some wartime weapons so valuable compared to the standard production & procured ones, it is these extra markings. As well as the poorer finishes & undone or not-completed processes that in some cases makes them truly rare ! This is especially true of the Germans & what they had control over during ( late wartime ) ! Making some guns truly rare & worth thousands of dollars extra now ? The reason for this is that the Germans kept meticulous records & were highly organized till the very end ! The Soviets were not or won't tell to this day what some of their wartime coding was for on specific weapons etc.? That said, your Tokarev, is of significantly more value & rarer than a pre or post war Tokarev & even ( most ),wartime ones ! I would put it in the $1500 to & 2000 dollar range & that increasing every years there won't be any more 1945 year model pistols made & with no-import markings to boot, it is a keeper just as it is ! Arsenal rework or not & it may be worth more if it is a wartime or era rework ! Some Kreighof Nazi era reworks are worth twice as much & rarer than than a standard one ! Another example is the ware time Dura-aLuminum P-38"s & the Grey Ghost P-38"s ! And the B-Series Nazi era Checkoslovakian model 38 w/saftey added ! Another two, that come to mind is the Saur 38H thats of too many wartime variants to list & the Hungarian Frommer Pistols with both safety & caliber changes ? These changes in the norm make them of considerable more rarity & value than their standard models ! I could go on & on but let me say this one of the most knowledgeable folks I've ever known was Sydnis Rachwal & his son David Rachwal they are truly experts in this feld ! David Rachwal has a website Handguns of the World just type in his name ! He should know much more than I do hope this helps you out ?
Sincerely & Respectfully !
JOHN D WATSON

Thank you for your extensive reply. So in short it is quite possible that it is a wartime rework/refurb or „parts bin mixmaster“? I’d be happy with that, I think it’s very fitting with the history of soviet WW2 small arms. Of course there is no way to know for sure unless WW2 arsenal markings get declassified by Russia.

As for your estimated value, I guess its not worth as much over here in Switzerland as it is in the US, we just don‘t have as big a collector community as the US. FWIW I paid 380$ out the door for it, so I think i made a good deal.



@everyone else who complimented the gun, thank you :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No expert. It looks a little bit too good for wartime production. But it still has the duo tone finish from heat treatening which maybe is an indicator for original finish?
I was thinking maybe as the war was winding down and the Soviet Union wasn’t as desperate for arms as in 1942 and 1943 they could invest just a little more time in finishing. Just a theory though.
 

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Thank you for your extensive reply. So in short it is quite possible that it is a wartime rework/refurb or „parts bin mixmaster“? I’d be happy with that, I think it’s very fitting with the history of soviet WW2 small arms. Of course there is no way to know for sure unless WW2 arsenal markings get declassified by Russia.

As for your estimated value, I guess its not worth as much over here in Switzerland as it is in the US, we just don‘t have as big a collector community as the US. FWIW I paid 380$ out the door for it, so I think i made a good deal.



@everyone else who complimented the gun, thank you :)
You got a heck of a deal here in the USA Guns in general have tripled in prices in the last 5-years particularly because of importation restrictions on CHINA , RUSSIA & other countries their will be no-more more than likely your gun is definitely a keeper ! The longer you hold on to it the better ? But shoot your gun & keep it clean an Oil
 

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You got a heck of a deal here in the USA Guns in general have tripled in prices in the last 5-years particularly because of importation restrictions on CHINA , RUSSIA & other countries their will be no-more more than likely your gun is definitely a keeper ! The longer you hold on to it the better ? But shoot your gun & keep it clean an Oil
Well I got cut off get you a stair stainless firing pin & hammer group & a desent recoil spring & make you a Shock-Buff rubber on the recoil spring guide on the end a flat thic rubber washer trimmed works fine but get Viton rubber if you can that way the impact to the frame with hot Ammo won’t do any wear on your valuable pistol ! It’s the same set-up as a Colt 1911 .45 ACP Pistol heck Shock-Buff may actually make one now for the TT-33 they do for the SKS ? If you really want to know as much as can be found out write a letter & pictures & get a hold of David Rachwal at HANDGUNS OF THE WORLD just Google his web-site his Dad SYD Use to be a contributing Editor to Guns & Ammo Magazine by Petersons Publishing Co. here in the USA ! I’ve bough at least 5- TT-33’s from them & they deal mostly only in Collector Grade Handguns of all types ? You will be extremely impressed with Davids Website, I can promise you that ! He is honest and highly knowledgeable about Russian & East European & ex-Warsaw Pact pistols etc. but shoot your gun it won’t hurt the value at all ! I bet you could even get the Polish version inexpensive over in Switzerland? nice to visit with you & I hope you enjoy the website? You can tell David I sent you if you like ?
Sincerely & Respectfully !
John D Watson
[email protected]
 

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The frame and the slide have differen serial numbers, as fas as I cen see from the pictures ( XE 959 and XГ 4072 ).
If so, the weapon is therefore not in the condition in which it was made in 1945 - despite the war time they did not mix parts and did not assmeble pistols with two different serial numbers right at the factory. So there must have been interference in the construction of this gun after its production. I do not see known soviet arsenal refurbishment markings on the gun, so my assumption is that the pistol was assembled not in the framework of soviet arsenal refurbishment process but rather by an individual user/trader/owner.
Could you check the serial number on other parts of the pistol ( barrel, trigger mechanism, etc )? Are they mixed?
Font Line Parallel Engineering Electric blue
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
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The barrel has a different serial as well.
The small parts only have single digits and barely visible stamps, none of which match frame, slide or barrel.

This gun really puzzles me. No refurb markings, but clearly mismatched. I find it hard to believe that it would be assembled privately or commercially from spare parts, there arent any commercial markings on it, and it being privately assembeled in either the soviet union/russia or in Switzerland before import markings were required seems unlikely.

Would someone who speaks russian translate the diagram PMB posted? It seems there is a lot of useful information in it.
 

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Here you are - working translation
Font Line Parallel Electric blue Engineering


The one who built the pistol at least stay with the letter "X" in the prefix, since the barrel comes from XГ 7006 pistol. According to one of the theories first letter "X" from prefix indicates the month of the production - in this case November 1945 - but there are no documents to prove that theory.
How about the wooden grips? Do they have any serial number on the inner side?
 

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I have been a long time TOK Collector & have owned & read all that I could on this subject ? And have, at one time or another owned all of them, except the North Korean Type 68 ! Duncan Long has a book on the subject, that is about as exhaustive as possible ,on the markings, dates, variants as exists on the subject ! Saying all this, I looked your gun over & I believe this to be a genuine late wartime arsenal manufacture or remanufactured pistol ! Many things did & did not take place during this time of Total War, that were out of the ordinary ? The Soviets were on the move as much & as fast as possible toward Berlin ! Especially, the armaments manufacturers & their approval & proofing as well as the documentation~registration & distribution networks ! I highly suspect these to be some of these extra markings you mentioned & the extra or the additional ones ? Thisis what makes some wartime weapons so valuable compared to the standard production & procured ones, it is these extra markings. As well as the poorer finishes & undone or not-completed processes that in some cases makes them truly rare ! This is especially true of the Germans & what they had control over during ( late wartime ) ! Making some guns truly rare & worth thousands of dollars extra now ? The reason for this is that the Germans kept meticulous records & were highly organized till the very end ! The Soviets were not or won't tell to this day what some of their wartime coding was for on specific weapons etc.? That said, your Tokarev, is of significantly more value & rarer than a pre or post war Tokarev & even ( most ),wartime ones ! I would put it in the $1500 to & 2000 dollar range & that increasing every years there won't be any more 1945 year model pistols made & with no-import markings to boot, it is a keeper just as it is ! Arsenal rework or not & it may be worth more if it is a wartime or era rework ! Some Kreighof Nazi era reworks are worth twice as much & rarer than than a standard one ! Another example is the ware time Dura-aLuminum P-38"s & the Grey Ghost P-38"s ! And the B-Series Nazi era Checkoslovakian model 38 w/saftey added ! Another two, that come to mind is the Saur 38H thats of too many wartime variants to list & the Hungarian Frommer Pistols with both safety & caliber changes ? These changes in the norm make them of considerable more rarity & value than their standard models ! I could go on & on but let me say this one of the most knowledgeable folks I've ever known was Sydnis Rachwal & his son David Rachwal they are truly experts in this feld ! David Rachwal has a website Handguns of the World just type in his name ! He should know much more than I do hope this helps you out ? Sincerely & Respectfully ! JOHN D WATSON
Can I ask what the name of the Duncan Long book is? I have Datig and White books on the Tok. I looked up Long but don’t see a Tokarev book on his works list. Thanks!
 
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