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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am considering one of these as well as a Finn Capture. So basically the Century guns are repro Snipers?

Are there or were there any companies selling real PU snipers?
 

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R-guns reportedly sells real ones.
I answered your post on another forum, too, but just found this one in my "morning rounds".

Yes, RGuns has them and any of the ATI or Molot rifles are the real deal, as well. All of them are refurbs, of course. Some of the very early Century guns were real, but the ones with the billboard import mark that have been available for the last several years are fakes (and can usually be determined as such by their import serial numbers, of which the first five digits will read "9130S"). AIM and Classic sold out of their Molot imported rifles and J&G had some, at least until the last week, when I was told they only had 9 left. Not sure if they still have them. I would check the trader boards and auction sites. If you find something that you're not sure about, feel free to shoot me a PM and I can check it out and give you my opinion.

Forgot to add; PW Arms also imported some repros, so watch out for those. Any PW Arms sniper will either be a repro, or possibly an ex-sniper that's been "re-snipered".

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I answered your post on another forum, too, but just found this one in my "morning rounds".

Yes, RGuns has them and any of the ATI or Molot rifles are the real deal, as well. All of them are refurbs, of course. Some of the very early Century guns were real, but the ones with the billboard import mark that have been available for the last several years are fakes (and can usually be determined as such by their import serial numbers, of which the first five digits will read "9130S"). AIM and Classic sold out of their Molot imported rifles and J&G had some, at least until the last week, when I was told they only had 9 left. Not sure if they still have them. I would check the trader boards and auction sites. If you find something that you're not sure about, feel free to shoot me a PM and I can check it out and give you my opinion.

Forgot to add; PW Arms also imported some repros, so watch out for those. Any PW Arms sniper will either be a repro, or possibly an ex-sniper that's been "re-snipered".

John

I called RGUNS and they do have them. They are just 820.00 shipped
 

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Nothing wrong with the rifles from RGuns. However, here's the deal....

Up until about a year or so ago, RGuns was basically the only game in town and they were $800 then, too. However, that was before the recent batches of imports came in. Given the numbers that came in and the price at which distributors were able to get them, you started to see the market price drop. AIM was selling them in the $500-600 range, for example. They even had a couple of "B" grade sales for under $500, if I recall. So, for the last year or so, the market price has gone down and right now, $600-$650 seems to be the going rate (exceptions for rare/less common years, Tulas, etc. in the private market). So, you could still find one on the private market for that $6-650 range if you look around and you will also have the advantage of knowing what you're getting, up front. Most of the rifles I've seen from RGuns have been great. However, there have been a couple that were not so great. So, it's still somewhat of a roll of the dice. They'll probably do a return/exchange, but that's a hassle that could likely be avoided, and for less money, up front.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
John. My local Cabela's has 2 of them but I believe they are Century guns....What should I look for to indicate if they are legit or repro?
 

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Typically, there will be a few things that will be a dead give-away of a repro. As I mentioned above, the import serial number on the Century repros (on their "billboard" import mark) will start with "9130S". On the repro scopes, the screws on the turrets will be flat headed and flush with the top of the turret, instead of domed like the originals. The dates can also be an indicator. The PU wasn't put into production until late in 1942 and even a '42 PU is considered uncommon. Anything before 1942 would not be legit and surely not a rifle built on a hex receiver (which many of the repros are, unfortunately). It's not entirely impossible that they took in somebody's "project" gun, or something like that. But, if they have more than one, it's probably because they got them from a distributor/importer. I know others have mentioned seeing lines of repros at Cabela's, so that's probably the case.

Edit: as far as what would make them legit, or determine the value of a legitimate example....well, that's a longer list. If you get there and believe, for some reason, that they're not repros, snap a few pics of the barrel shank (chamber) markings, scope/mount and import markings, if you are able..
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Got any pics of the repro markings? I'm going to head up there on Mon or Tues.
 

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Other than the import serial number, the Century repros don't really have any markings that give them away as a repro. Take a good look at the scopes, though. Flat screw heads = repro.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
One thing I remember is the rifles I saw where stamped with the molot info along the left hand side towards the back(Close to the bolt & carrier.)
 

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Get one you will love it, Yes Rguns is a lot, but they get some amazing things others don't. Ill try and find a group of links the seller of one I got sent me.
I got a Samco unscoped one, he rescoped with a mid 40s scope and a early 50s base. I only paid 400 for it though so I was happy with that.
It is one of my favorite rifles out of the mass, and it made me sell my PSL (I just stopped liking it) and I don't sell guns
 

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If they're Molot, then they're most likely legit snipers. I don't know of Molot importing anything but. Cabela's is known for carrying repros, but it's not impossible that they got ahold of some of the Molot rifles, as a bunch came into the country in the last year.

You'll see a lot of arguments regarding RGuns and the other snipers that have been imported, as to which ones are "more original". Kind of a moot point, since they're all refurbished to one degree or another. However, I have one RGuns rifle and from the others I've seen, there are some qualities that I like about them. But, nothing is a sure thing, in terms of condition, matching numbers, etc. even if RGuns seems to be more consistent in those areas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Heading up to Cabella's now. Ill take some pics
 

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Post up the pics and we will give you our opinions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
They both sold but they ended up being repros
 

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If anyone wants any REAL Finn capture Mosin sniper rifles:

I have a Finn MADE 1939 Tula PU sniper rifle for sale if anyone is interested. This is NOT one of the Century made rifles, it is one of the handful of Century imported original Finn captured Mosin PE, PEM, and PU sniper rifles from the early 1990's that Sarco found in their back room a couple years ago. It is in a standard 91/30 stock, which just happens to be a 1939 Tula, and has a standard 91/30 bolt. It's definitely some Finn's home made sniper, much to crude to be the product of a Finn arsenal. I have a genuine WW2 Soviet PU base (one of the unissued ones that came out of Polish Red Army war reserve storage inventory after the fall of communism) that I would sell with it. I want $1,000 + shipping for the rifle, and an additional $250 for the base with correct original WW2 mounting hardware.


I also have several Finn captured PE/PEM top-mount rifles for sale. These are missing the scope and mount setups and have standard bolts, but the holes in the receiver are not plugged like with Soviet refurbed "ex"-snipers. I am asking $1,000 + shipping each on these.
 

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Information from my observation and experience.

Cabelas: I used to work in the gun section of Cabelas. We used to get Mosin PU sniper in the Gun Library, all were built-up repros on random Mosins. I think they were from Century, but once I saw what they were I didn't bother to ID the source. To me a repro is a repro.

There are three sources for (probably? Maybe?) genuine Mosin PU snipers in the US. RGuns, AIM and ATI.

Rguns are the only ones that can be independently confirmed as genuine, as they were inspected in the Ukraine Police storage depot by non-Rguns prospective buyers years prior to their being sold to Rguns. Refurbished after the war, probably by Tula, as the ones I've seen have Tula Arsenal stamps, even if they are Izhevsk rifles. Of the three importers, I prefer the Rguns rifles, as they have had the least amount of refurbishing done to them. Indeed, some of the stocks have evidence of use; chips to the finish, scratches, wear marks. Wartime damage or postwar police use? Dunno. In either case, my guess is that the stocks were not refinished before they were consigned to storage unless the were visibly chewed up. I actually like this, but others might prefer a more pristine gun. Large import mark on the receiver is the only downside.

AIM; refurbished by Molot at some unknown post-war date. I do believe these are original WWII snipers, but there are some who would argue the point that Molot has access to the original die-stamps for doing a fake sniper if they pleased. There is some reason to consider this, as ALL rifles, even the Tula guns, are marked on the barrel shank with the serial number of the scope. The Tula arsenal didn't stamp the scope number on their snipers (instead identifying them as designated sniper rifles with a CH over the Tula star logo). So this treatment is unusual and non-standard for wartime Tula rifles...some would argue "incorrect". Whether this stamping of the Tulas was just a standard matter done during their post-war refurbishing, or evidence of slap-dash fakery at Molot, depends on where you want to stand on it. My belief is that they are real snipers, but without independent confirmation of their original source, the question hangs over the rifles themselves and probably effects the price among picky collectors. All the ones I've seen have perfect red shellac finish on the wood, which indicates to me an added step of refurbishing.

ATI: Russian refurbished by unknown Russian police arsenal, then exported to Germany several years ago, held in storage until they became "German" :) and then exported to the US. They bear German importation markings as a sporting rifle. As per the AIM, all rifles are numbered to their scope, even the Tulas. The biggest disadvantage to the ATI when compared to the AIM is the stocks, which have been refinished in a semi-opaque muddy-brown shellac. Yuck. Not as pretty, but as good as the AIM for all the same reasons and certainly functional.
 
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