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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Polish AK-47 Hellpup Pistol 7.62x39
Manufactured in Poland by Radom 7.62x39 High Capacity Semi-Auto Includes (2) 30 RD Mags 11.5" Barrel with Muzzle Brake. Free Shipping (1st 48 States). Polish AK-47 Pistol 7.62x39 with (2) 30RD Mags #AKAGUN-POLHP

And now priced at $500. 348 units in stock. What is the thinking in the AK community about this entry? It seems fairly priced to me. How about the construction and performance?
 

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Damn! Expires on the 27th! No bueno.

I don't see how it could be all that bad being made at the Radom factory. Isn't that the beauty of buying the pistols for later SBR...because they're honest-to-goodness, real-deal factory AKs?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you all for your feedback. I'm a gonna cool my jets on this one, I think it's got to go lower to clear the market.

On TOS I read an opinion it was made in Radom the city but not by Radom the military firearms factory. I can't speak to the veracity of this however. Maybe someone here knows for sure and whether that's a significant fact or not.
 

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Thank you all for your feedback. I'm a gonna cool my jets on this one, I think it's got to go lower to clear the market.

On TOS I read an opinion it was made in Radom the city but not by Radom the military firearms factory. I can't speak to the veracity of this however. Maybe someone here knows for sure and whether that's a significant fact or not.
That's correct. Radom is the city of manufacturing ... It's not the .mil Radom factory. If you do a little searching, there were issues reported with these. Not sure if they have been resolved or not.
 

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The newest issue of the "book of the AK-47 has an article about the private company called Pioneer Arms that builds the Hellpup and others from the original mechanical drawings. It is according to the article, operating in some of the original old Radom Arsenal buildings, it also seems to be using parts from demilled rifles etc. Pictures show the Hellpup and parts ready for assembly...
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
The newest issue of the "book of the AK-47 has an article about the private company called Pioneer Arms that builds the Hellpup and others from the original mechanical drawings. It is according to the article, operating in some of the original old Radom Arsenal buildings, it also seems to be using parts from demilled rifles etc. Pictures show the Hellpup and parts ready for assembly...
Well from reading here and around it appears we're dealing with at least 2 versions of the Polish AK Pistol with the one to avoid being the one made by IO. And here's a complete comment on the plus side for the Polish made version: http://www.theakforum.net/forums/27...ed-poland-radom-good-quality.html#post1484988

Otherwise first hand range reports are scarce for the Polish built AK pistols on TOS's I checked out. Currently I'm thinking the CFS offering is the correct one to hit at this point in time if one is in the market.

Edit: However until I can be certain the current pistols offered at CFS are not among the problem batch IO has sold into the market, I'm in a strictly wait and see mode.
 

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Centerfire and Atlantic both offer these right now - they are listed as the Polish made ones, so they should be good to go. Atlantic will work with California buyers to make the pistol California "Single shot exemption" compliant with a magazine lock and magazine well "butt plug" that converts it to a single shot pistol and allows it to be imported even though it is not on the "approved roster" that the child molesting Marxist sodomite bandits up in Sacramento use to keep as many cool guns out of Cornhole-ifornia as possible. Of course, once you get it here, it is perfectly to convert your "single shot" Hellpup into a 10 shot pistol by removing said mag well plug and inserting a 10 round magazine.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
To me the Atlantic offering is a bit confusing in its description. It says in one place: Manufacturer: I.O Inc
and in another place: made in the world-famous weapon plants of Radom, Poland.

 

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From my understanding they, along with mags, are made in a nearby factory which bought the rights to the Radom name. There was a polish guy on another forum that lives there and posted about it. I'll see if I can find it.
 

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I fondled one of these at a LGS Friday. The serial number on the trunnion was machined off and replaced with a new one. The serial number on the receiver cover didn't match. The grip was used and the handguards looked to be the Russian or Bulgarian polymer type. It looked decent enough, but for the money I'd buy one of the Yugo (Serbian) pistols first.
 

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Michael Lubinski was a Polish profesional shooter that bought out the (11) trademark, as well as all the 5.45 and 7.62 parts from Radom.... He is the one that had the recent plastic 7.62x39 mags with the (11) mark. He now runs "Works 11".

He is located in Katowice.. I dont know if he had anything to do with these...

Now, if they are made in Radom, one can safely assume that they were assembled by people with factory knowledge, and probably tools. The Radom factory is not exactly what it used to be in terms of production....
 

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I have the Polish Hellpup pistol, and 5 front halves (barrel assemblies with trunnions) from the Polish "Pioneer Arms" AK sporters IO used to import. They all have PAC and the serial number on the scrubbed and remarked trunnions and the Hellpup says Pioneer Arms on the receiver, but there is no (11) marking on any of them. So it seems very certain that who ever owns the (11) trademark - "Works 11" - has nothing to do with their production or marketing, as this connection would certainly be a selling feature if it existed. I don't know what the relationship, if any, between "Pioneer Arms" and the original Radom Factory (or what's left of it, if anything) is either. Since Pioneer also makes the Polish PPSH subgun based firearms, it would seem that they at least have tooling, parts inventory, and perhaps personel and/or facilities from the former Radom factory.

The AKM barreled trunnions appear to be all Polish military parts with unissued original Polish barrels, so I plan to use the barrels to build up a Polish underfolder kit and a couple of Soviet AKM kits using these Polish barrels and some of the fully heat-treated and hardened Polish 80% receiver blanks from Childers Guns.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thank you for this ^ information. It pretty well describes one piece of this puzzle, namely the IO - PAC - piece. So to complete the puzzle I'd like to see close up images of Centerfire's and Atlantic's Polish AK pistol offerings; photos of the trunnions and receivers, both sides, so we can make out the builder/maker marks and thereby identify their origins.

I'm unable to enlarge their current website images enough to make out the marks in metal so as to clearly identify them.
 

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The pistols currently offered by Atlantic and CFS are the ones imported from Poland by IO. Remember that the photos dealers post on their websites are often file photos or ones from the manufacturer/importer that may not reflect the actual firearm being offered, although from what I can see the photos of the Hellpup are current, as they show the black handguards these are currently coming with...I don't know if they also still have some with the red ones.

Here are the markings on my Hellpup, and I don't see any reason to think they have changed on the more recently imported ones:

Serial number on front trunnion: PAC1112316 - this is the only marking here, original Polish marking, date, and serial number have been cleanly scrubbed. There are also Polish proof marks on either side of the barrel pin hole.

Left side receiver marking:

HELLPUP 7.62X39
PIONEER ARMS CORP
RADOM, POLAND

Right side receiver marking:

I.O. INC
MONROE, NC


Safety/selector markins are S and F.
 

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Maybe but there is no way Im spending more then $5 (FIVE DOLLARS) on anything that might or might not be original Polish mil Radom that could be just using the name o fa city that might be built in a building once used by Radom factory that could be owned by several companies/individuals.

On another forum there was a polish guy who posted about this and basically the new stuff just has the Radom name added to it for us Americans. Marketing. Otherwise its slowly turning into Polish Tapco
 

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$450 is a good price on these pistols - I paid a lot more for mine several months ago, and am not unhappy about is as I feel mine is worth what I paid and through normal channels these are not available here in California.


As I already stated above, these are being made by Pioneer Arms Corp. in the city of Radom, Poland - not at the original Radom military arsenal. Of course using the Radom name is marketing, just like the company here called "Springfield Armory" is trying to cash in on the name of the famous U.S. military facility to sell their guns. Yea, it's marketing. Big deal and so what? The point is to look past the marketing and see what is being marketed, and then determine if that represents good value for money.

I feel that my pistol does represent good value for money to me. Polish military parts with a new production MADE IN POLAND receiver, and it runs like a German motorcycle - smooth and reliable. Hellpups were unavailable for a while and it seems the current ones might be using more new production parts, at least looking at the Pioneer Arms videos currently posted on several AK sites.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
In reading your posts on these, and others elsewhere, I too think the risk reward ratio is even at a current price of $450 and would be a buyer here.
 
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