AK Rifles banner
41 - 60 of 82 Posts
Aries14482 said:
Holy shit guys, no need to attack me for giving my experience on the matter. I've been here a while and try to post only when I think I have something relevant to offer. Geez, I'm one of you guys. I'm the guy at the local 3-gun that kicks everybody's AR-shooting ass with my SLR-106. I'm not someone else's "second account" as Voron seems to think.
Hell, don't sweat it and keep up the good work on the ranges, man! I enjoyed both reading and commenting on your posts, so please never refrain from giving us your honest perspective and experiences. Some guys just like to press the 'All Russian equipment is junk" button and that rubs some of us the wrong way.

But anyway, I'm sorry you had a problem with a PK-23, that sight was a good idea but sadly it was the execution that went bad on that one. Just not built to a military capable strength or reliabilty. It's not really Russian, though. Belarus is still trying to develope a good red dot sight. In fact, a newer version of the PK01 family is in military trials as we speak, and to me it looks very promising. Very similar to a PK-A, but much better. Very clean design, truly bore-contric, low enough to provide a cheek weld and to "co-witness" if that's your sort of thing, looks like it uses AA batteries, and as they said in industrial design class, if it looks good it usually is, hehe. I think this one looks great. Anyway, here's one mounted onto a 74M, see what you guys think:




Jay Cunningham said:
Well heck, should I address you as Jay or The Katar, hehe? So you are the one with the dual accounts? How do you change your user name and keep your post count? And why would you even want to? Well anyway, I saw that video before but I was unaware they ever actually said they "liked" them, hehe? But seriously, they probably do, though, they tend to like anything they are provided with. And I've been told that Eotech sights have been acquired and are being evaluated by certain specialized units within Russia, but then again others are actually being issued with new 1P63's, 1P76's, and 1P78's. The Eotech would certainly be a great choice, especially with a low-profile integral low-boy purpose-built AK siderail mount. Or maybe that Izhmash-designed hinged top cover rail will be adopted for general issue on the standard AK-74M one of these days? But anyway, the Eotech is a dang nice combat proven sight, and getting better all the time. Sadly, the mil-spec versions are too rich for my fixed income retired ass blood, though.


TX-Zen said:
Aimpoints are fine optics, I've always been very impressed with them. I don't doubt their quality one bit. But to say that nothing else can ever possibly be better is really just a closed mind talking without thinking.
I fully agree, good post, man, thanks.

And I am certainly not trying to knock that Aimpont micro on a gas tube mount that Aries14482 is having a great deal of success using. It's just not for me, that's all. I just don't like gas tube mounts, too far from my eyes. But most Aimpoints are made to an extreme quality level, there is no doubt of this fact. I just don't think they are the end-all optic, and I also think there are suitable options made in Russia.

voron said:
I am sorry if it came off that way, it was not meant as you think.
the reason i posted that was simply because this comes up over and over, where guys would want to read reviews of Russian junk, and after a long discussion someone would come in and just say.."just buy western optic, and dont waste your time with Russian stuff"
Yep, that's a hot button, alright, hehe. Aries14482, voron is a great guy and would help you with anything you needed with honestly and respect. Voron, thanks for the great posts and for sharing your experiences and knowledge on these subjects with us.
 
JoeMomma said:
Doug, if you get a chance, could you post one or two pics of the Kobra being used being used by Russians? I'd love to have a few for my pic collection.
No problem!

donkismash said:
Okay, here's two I was able to locate on my computer tonight, circa 1996. Some others I won't bother to post, because even though they were also taken of Russian troops in a war zone, 75% of the images you run across are posed in soem way. These are both checkpoint photos, same location but different guys in different uniforms with different rifles. I'd say judging by the fancy threads and new gear, these guys are MVD which generally was better financed and got the good stuff way before the army did, especially back then. Plus, I never saw any regular army personnel with any AK-mounted daylight optics of any kind, until the Georgian Conflict. It simply did not exist.

I'm sure if photograghers had been allowed to roam freely, we might have seen more exotic hardware elsewhere, but these types of locations were where 90% of foreign photograghers were forced to hang out during much of this war and a great deal of the available Reuters and AP images of the First Chechen Conflict were taken at these types of locations. For instance, this particular spot shows up in hundreds of images, it might even be the border corssing into Chechnya or Grozny city limits? I used to know but that was years ago! Keep in mind that this was a time when tight securty on journalists was still imposed by the former USSR. These were also taken before much of the military ever received the new AK-74M "black" rifles.

A few Kobra images were the only daylight optics on AK rifles I saw in Chechnya-1, period. I do know others were tested such as "Thread B" which was also adopted by the MVD. Back then it was a bloody rare event to see optics in the Russian military at all, especially caught on film. Except hanging off an SVD rifle or RPG of course. Most Kalashnikov optical equipment was at that time NV devices, and of course no journalists were allowed to follow Russian special forces types around in the dark, hehe.



 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
Great pics, thanks for sharing those! In the second pic, what is that muzzle device? It looks like a special suppressor to me, but I would think something like that would be larger.
 
JoeMomma said:
Great pics, thanks for sharing those! In the second pic, what is that muzzle device? It looks like a special suppressor to me, but I would think something like that would be larger.

Maybe a XM177 style moderator? :confused:
 
Hey Tantal, thanks for your T&E on this subject.

One question, what side mount are you referring to with the cracks.Ive got two gen 2's coin versions.

Also, I read some where, years ago that the kobra won the Russian Military best invention award. Can you confirm or deny?

Thanks,
Vepr


 
Wow! Thanks for all the input Doug! I've always loved reading the massive amounts of info you've provided through both your site and on the forums you've frequented!

As far as weight compared to western optics, I really should have been more specific. Any Eastern reddot-type optic vs a Micro Aimpoint, at least at the moment, just won't compare weight-wise. Eastern optics are not the only optics that are heavier than a micro Aimpoint, however. Mostly, I just got one (an R-1) and am in love with the lack of weight. That was the only reason I wanted one. :grin:

To be more specific, a lot of the weight of Eastern optics comes from the integral sidemount assembly. As much as I love sidemounts for their ability to be removed and remounted and still hold zero, they are pretty heavy. If a piccatinny/weaver version of the same Eastern optic could be mounted on a low-weight mount like the Ultimak or the TWS rail (or the new rail that you mentioned that I've seen on a new AK model- I assume it's lightweight like the TWS?) they might well be quite comparable weight-wise to optics like the Aimpoint Comp series and the Eotech.

I did not know that the Kobra is actually lighter than a Comp series Aimpoint with mount included. That's interesting to know. I'm also fascinated to learn that they had so few failures in the years you sold them. That's also good to know.

I do not have direct knowledge or experience with the TWS rail. Whether or not it's durable remains to be seen, but I'm hopeful since it offers the same overall weight efficiency as the Ultimak (they both replace parts of the rifle, resulting in an overall added weight of only 1 oz each, respectively) but would allow an optic to be mounted behind the rifle's point of balance. Even though the micro Aimpoints are light, that extra 4.7 oz forward of the rifle's point of balance does make a difference.

I wanted to note a couple of things here: I actually really like the high-mounted, "chin weld" approach the Russians have used for optics. I loved it with my Comp M2 mounted in the PK-23 mount. It allowed for a really nice, low positioning of the buttstock in the shoulder while allowing for a more comfortable, upright head position as well. Emergency use of the iron sights could be had by simply rolling your head forward into a more traditional cheek weld.

The main reason I like cowitness is because it makes zeroing a new optic, or one removed and replaced for repair, very easy as you only have to align the dot with your iron sights and then tune your zero at distance. :wink:

The PK-AS aside, I simply feel that the lack of customer service and battery life with Eastern reddots make a used Aimpoint a better bargain, assuming they are at comparable price points. If Doug were still running his show, I might feel better about the customer service side of things. :wink: That said, I certainly don't feel like the Russian stuff is junk. Be fair! Most of the Russian reddots we see for sale here in teh States are a decade old and are compared with recent western reddots.

I think two reasons the long battery life of the Aimpoints is so well liked is because it allows the optic be be left on all the time (no "oh shit" moments forgetting to turn on the optic as you grab your rifle in the middle of the night) with great confidence that it will work when needed, since the maintenance interval (changing the battery) is well over a year now. Plus, it basically combines what used to be two separate optic features into one optic. 1. a battery powered optic with adjustable brightness that can be made bright enough to not wash out in bright sunlight and dim enough to work in total darkness without dazzling the eye or 2. a tritium powered optic that only needed to be "recharged" every ten years or so. Now you have both features in in an optic that can also be "recharged" by simply buying buying a $2 battery from Wal-Mart instead of having to send in the optic to have a tritium vial replaced.

As for who I got the Pk-23 from, no Doug, it was definitely not you. I wish I would have. I ordered from the now defunct Freedom Optics. They never returned my emails or calls to the number on the shipping label from the box. The optic was a factory defect. I was quite pissed since I had chosen the optic because of its comparatively low cost. I was of quite limited means at the time, and it had been a very expensive purchase for me then.

Finally, you wouldn't have any idea on where to start to DIY repair a PK-23 that has a wondering zero, would you? I've noticed that the dot jumps about an average of 10MOA, just from the jolt of dry firing. I'm convinced it's either the mechanism that moves the inner tube, or that one of the front lenses is somehow loose. I'm not concerned about losing the nitrogen purge.
 
veprk said:
One question, what side mount are you referring to with the cracks.Ive got two gen 2's coin versions.
Also, I read some where, years ago that the kobra won the Russian Military best invention award. Can you confirm or deny?
Thanks,
Vepr
Very early model, EKP-1S-02, and early 03, the Gen 1 Kobras that used the early lithium 3v AA batteries and had a flat sided bracket on them. Not Gen 2's (EKP-8) and not Gen 1+ that had a finned side bracket. Those earlier units often developed a stress crack on the riser bracket after a few years, it would start at the thinnest strip of metal on the bracket, under the mounting screws where it mates to the body of the sight near the micro-switch location. Eventually it would flex and the micro-switch would let off of the switch knob cam that activates it, then the sight would start to go off as you fired the rifle.

Yes, I neglected to mention it, but for whatever it's worth, it did win some sort of special Russian engineering award in the 1990's.

Aries14482, I just read your post, thanks. I'll get back with you on any questions you had for me a bit later, for now I need to hit th hay, hehe!
 
I had two, still have one. I had issues with brightness adjustment on one sight and ended up simply dumping it. I only paid $130 or $140 for it at the time so it wasn't a big deal. I bought both 10-ish years ago.

I would generally say that the Kobra compares favorably to the EOTech in everything but battery life, though the EOTech's battery life is only marginally better.

Even older Aimpoints blow the Kobra away. About the only advantage the Kobra has on the Aimpoint optics is ability to select reticles, which doesn't confer much to me personally.


They're ok, but Russian QC is spotty and since I didn't buy from Tantal, I got zero customer support on the lemon. Even the one the one that is still going strong doesn't strike me as terribly durable, especially when compared to Aimpoint optics. It's seen "hard use" on a rifle range (as I suspect optics in most anecdotes of "hard use" have seen) and stood up. I would buy another though for a plinking/range gun PDQ if the price was what it was 10 years ago. At this point the price just isn't competitive with used Comp M2's.

Part of the problem in discussions about these optics is that one side tends to get emotionally invested and the other makes comparisons to more modern Western designs which have benefited from 20+ years of product improvement. Sure the Kobra has seen some comparatively slight changes, but it's basically comparable to red dots from 1990. When compared against that generation, it's performance is at least equivalent, if not superior.

It is definitely the best of the Russian red dots.
 
Tantal said:
jimdigriz said:
For $400, an Aimpoint Comp C3 would be a better value than a Kobra. (Unless you are determined to have the admittedly cool Kobra look).
Then you need to add a mount, $500 or more when you get done. A Kobra is half that much, comes with an integral mount made just for an AK, and weighs less than a Comp C3 with a mount.
The Comp C3 can be had for $360, and a BP-02 mount for $50.

With Horse's new mount - admittedly a more expensive option - the weight should be roughly equivalent to the Kobra.
 
Redmanfms said:
I had two, still have one. I had issues with brightness adjustment on one sight and ended up simply dumping it. I only paid $130 or $140 for it at the time so it wasn't a big deal. I bought both 10-ish years ago.

I would generally say that the Kobra compares favorably to the EOTech in everything but battery life, though the EOTech's battery life is only marginally better.

Even older Aimpoints blow the Kobra away. About the only advantage the Kobra has on the Aimpoint optics is ability to select reticles, which doesn't confer much to me personally.


They're ok, but Russian QC is spotty and since I didn't buy from Tantal, I got zero customer support on the lemon. Even the one the one that is still going strong doesn't strike me as terribly durable, especially when compared to Aimpoint optics. It's seen "hard use" on a rifle range (as I suspect optics in most anecdotes of "hard use" have seen) and stood up. I would buy another though for a plinking/range gun PDQ if the price was what it was 10 years ago. At this point the price just isn't competitive with used Comp M2's.

Part of the problem in discussions about these optics is that one side tends to get emotionally invested and the other makes comparisons to more modern Western designs which have benefited from 20+ years of product improvement. Sure the Kobra has seen some comparatively slight changes, but it's basically comparable to red dots from 1990. When compared against that generation, it's performance is at least equivalent, if not superior.

It is definitely the best of the Russian red dots.
Good post - especially agree with the part in bold.
 
I tried to explain my point of view in clear and logical order, and as completely as I could. Whether you agreed or disagreed, at least show me some mutual respect. It's kind of arrogant to brush my point of view off as being "emotional", rather than giving me credit for any knowledge base of any kind.
 
Tantal said:
I tried to explain my point of view in clear and logical order, and as completely as I could. Whether you agreed or disagreed, at least show me some mutual respect. It's kind of arrogant to brush my point of view off as being "emotional", rather than giving me credit for any knowledge base of any kind.
Especially since he disregarded the second part, right after what he bolded... you know, the part that applies to him?
Part of the problem in discussions about these optics is that one side tends to get emotionally invested and the other makes comparisons to more modern Western designs which have benefited from 20+ years of product improvement.
AK > longbow -- Discuss
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
Tantals post is one of the best resources I've ever found regarding the Kobra, and I've looked everywhere.
If anyone out there has more hands on experience with the different models of this optic, and can cover in detail the pros and cons like he did, by all means post it, or a link.

I am extremely gratefull to Doug that he took the time to write what amounts to a full blown article for our forum, I'm sure it took some time, and there is even more detail here than on his website.

I have no problem with anyone who wants to disagree with his assesment based on personal experience, but lets not label his post as emotional.
 
i totally forgot about this email i got few weeks ago

Subject: Fwd: [Dtiquips] Aimpoint Issue
16 Jan 11

Aimpoint T1/H1



Several students have reported to me, over a number of years, that the red

dot of their Aimpoint T1/H1 sometimes suddenly goes dead during recoil,

only to pop back on when the brightness adjustment knob is adjusted. To be

fair, the phenomenon is extremely uncommon. I have a number of Aimpoints,

both T1s and H1s, on several rifles, and have never personally witnessed the

problem, until last week.



A student brought an RA/XCR in 7.62x39, equipped with an Aimpoint T1, to

one of our Urban Rifle Classes in
South FL. Sure enough, the dot

unexpectedly went dead, upon recoil of one of his shots, during a Movement-and-Cover

Exercise.



Like mine, his T1 was set-up on a LaRue, Quick-Release Mount. So, I took

the T1 and Mount off his rifle and put it on mine. After several shots, it

did the same thing when mounted on my rifle. Conversely, my T1 continued

to function normally.



I subsequently talked with friends at Aimpoint, and they told me about the

issue:



"The problem you describe is usually do to the battery-cap not being tight

enough. But, when tightening the battery-cap doesn't solve the problem,

take the battery out. Clean it off. Put it back in, and acutely re-tighten

the cap. Replace the battery if it is over a year old. That will nearly

always make the problem go away.



However, Aimpoint is absolutely insistent upon customer satisfaction. So,

when the quick-fix delineated above is not efficacious, get hold of us, and

we will repair/replace the unit. No problem!"



That's what I wanted to hear!



As I said, this phenomenon is rare indeed. I've had many Aimpoints in

Courses, and this is the first time I've personally witnessed it.



And, Aimpoint's splendid attitude in the realm of customer service insures

that I will continue to recommend the product.



/John

_______________________________________________

Dtiquips mailing list

Dtiquips@clouds.com

Copyright 2010 by DTI, Inc. All rights reserved.



as requested, here are some pix of Russian special police using Kobras. Alpha is the name of this group



here are some video of the same groups test firing during regular training ops
year: 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnrmgN8PUWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoOsrIsAxL4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5gKpTdp ... re=related
 
Good to read about the potential issue since I'm now running an R-1. Thanks Voron!

The problem described is almost certainly an issue with the battery not making contact because of shifting or malformation from recoil, or from a corroded battery or battery contacts. Some other possibilities would be a broken connection due to a failed solder, faulty wiring, or damage to the actual printed circuitboard.

I encountered this same issue with my PK-23 shortly after I got it and right before I discovered that the zero was wandering. The little nipple inside that interacts with the battery had become crushed from recoil and wasn't making full contact anymore. The quick fix was simply tightening the battery cap a little tighter to help eliminate the gap. A small disk made from copper and inserted behind the battery would probably also have worked.

Again, that brings up the issue of customer service. When something breaks, it's good to know you have some recourse if your home-made fix doesn't work.
 
Karden has some of the best Russian weapons pics on his website. The videos are awesome as well. Thanks.
 
If I may...

I currently own an Aimpoint, Kobra, PK-AS, Zrak, and ACOG.

Acog is my #1. Nothing comes close in quality, although I understand comparing that to say, a Kobra makes no sense at all.

For a 1x I'd say the PK-AS which is more like a 1.5x. It's not quite a 1x.

For my Saiga 12, Kobra all the way.

Zrak: Looks crisp but it's off at POHF right now. I have yet to use it.

Aimpoint: I have the CS model. It's rare. I'm not sold on it yet. I need more time with it. Non user replaceable battery is good for 10 years continuous use.

I'm just blabbering at this point.
 
Here's my opinion:
There are 4 Aimpoints and one Kobra at my house .
I would be very happy to sell the Kobra.
$300 , in the box , with tool and manual .
Then you too can come to appreciate that , compared to an Aimpoint Micro on an Ultimak , the Kobra just plain sucks.
 
campperrykid said:
Here's my opinion:
There are 4 Aimpoints and one Kobra at my house .
I would be very happy to sell the Kobra.
$300 , in the box , with tool and manual .
Then you too can come to appreciate that , compared to an Aimpoint Micro on an Ultimak , the Kobra just plain sucks.
Hater.

:wink:
 
41 - 60 of 82 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top