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Discussion Starter #1
To my surprise, the North Korean PG-2(?) cone arrived. Here's some photos - as I don't have a PG-2 rocket on-hand for comparison, maybe someone here will be able to verify if that's what it actually is as I put it side-by-side with a PG-7 rocket:



 

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Ray,

I would bet a months pay it is a NK copy of the Chinese Type-50. (An early clone of the 1st series Soviet PG-2 HEAT.)

I have snapped some quick pics of one of my Chinese Type-50s and tried to replicate your "dollar to ogive" perspective:




Your thoughts?

S/F
Nick

P.S. Are there any markings on the back of the inverted coned liner? Maybe a star in a circle or a circle inside a small square?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I truly appreciate the technical help, Nick. :hail: I looked the piece over and the only marking I could find is what appears to be the Hangul letter "ㅋ" (which is the equivalent to the consonant "k" in the English alphabet) and appears to be stamped/impressed into the metal. I've circled it in the second photo:




I'm no computer genius so I was playing around with photos by copying and snipping them into a Word document. Here's the best I could do in comparing your dollar/ogive photo to mine - they appear to be the same size (I tried to ensure an equal comparison by getting the oval frame around Washington's portrait the same):



As you specified, I think I'd also be happy in calling it the real deal. I've hunted high and low for a decent photo of RPG-2 (or whatever the nomenclature is that the North Koreans give it) in use with the NKPA just to see the rocket. A daunting task so far.
 

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Ray,

This is from my files:

.

I cannot confirm it is an NKPA / NKA soldier because I cannot see much of the uniform but other pictures in the file are all NKPA / NKA soldiers from 1951-1965. (Besides, I probably do not know all I should about NK Cold War era uniforms.)

However, the "long" Type-56 - made by China - was given to North Korea in huge numbers, and this one is loaded with a Type-50 (or clone).

Let me dig some more.

S/F
Nick
 

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Another excellent thread with great pics and discussion.....

Another excellent thread with great pics and discussion.....

:hail:

But, since most seen are the green colored variety, how about the origins of the black painted versions? Russian?
 

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Ben,

"...how about the origins of the black painted versions"

Generally speaking, black PG-2 and PG-7 munitions are most often times some sort of manufacture's practice / training / prototype munitions. For training rounds this is done basically for safety reasons as it is always a bad idea to mix live / inert / practice ammunition on the same range and/or same scheme of manuever.

"Black" rounds usually fall into the following categories:

1. Live-fire (Inert warhead)
2. None live-fire mock-up (full scale)
3. Live-Fire (Sub-Caliber)
4. Full size, live-fire, inert warhead, reduced range
5. Prototypes / Limited production run rounds

NATO tends to use a light blue color (the composition / disposition of the markings and locations vary) to signify a training and / or live-fire inert warhead munition. (Although I did seen "Blue" PG-7 training ammunition in Romania and Bulgaria last year.) Central and South America also uses dark blue, white or silver in addition to black.

Speaking directly to you original question regarding black "Type-50s" (Note the screws added to reinforce the individual fins on the fin assembly - a good sign it is a "manipulation" round only:


Inert Warhead, Live-Fire Chinese Type 50

Inert Warhead, Live-Fire Soviet PG-2 HEAT

Additionally, and once again generally speaking, Soviet / Russian live-fire inert warhead PG-2 / PG-7 training grenades are usually stamped (in white paint) with either “ИНЕРT” or “Инертная” both of which mean “INERT” (Inertnaya) or “ПРАКТ” which means, “PRACTICE”. (My translation may be slightly off.)

For further reference I have enclosed the following (although you are probably familiar with most of these):


PG-7 HEAT rubber mock-up non live-fire


Live Fire Inert warhead / PG-7L (ПГ-7Л)
Live Fire Inert warhead / PG-7VS (ПГ-7BC) (Bulgarian copy)
Live Fire Inert warhead / PG-7S (ПГ-7C)



FKP GkNIPAS PG-7VY MRAR (Multi-Role Assault Round) - Limited Production Munition


UGVS-2 PG-2 Sub-Caliber trainer (M-1943 7.62x39mm Ball / Tracer)


PUS-7M PG-7 Sub-Caliber trainer (M-1943 7.62x39mm Ball / Tracer)


Peruvian DC-LC-85B3 PG-7 Distance Reduction Round

All of that being said there are really no ID rules that apply 100% percent of the time and I am sure that some of our fellow posters would probably be able to find a "black" round in a completely different category.

Semper Fidelis
Nick
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That's interesting. While in Iraq, I saw several different colors on PG-7 rounds. The more notable being black, and extremely dark blue and dark green that were all live.
 

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Ray,

Copy all.

I too saw many black (and very dark black-green) live PG-7 rounds.

My last time there we also ran across many red/orange standard OG-7s.

I do know that sometimes rounds are painted black (or color X) to cover / hide markings from those that wish to trace how they got in a certain area.

My previous post was speaking strictly "perfect world" factory direct.

S/F
Nick
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Some of the dark/black ones I saw did have markings on them. Will go through my photos and see if I can find some. But others could've been painted over.

I have an "Iraqi" PG-7 round that falls into that interesting category. It's painted in a lighter green than the usual Russian green and has no markings but was not painted over. We always thought they were either exported "sterile" rounds given/sold to Iraq or they were simply Iraqi-made.
 

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Ray,

You are probably right regarding the sterile rounds.

Prior to OIF Iraq imported many kinds against various UN mandates. Additionally, they did produce "home-grown" slick versions of the PG-7 and PG-7, PG-7S and PG-7M.

Were you able to verify the "North Korean" picture I posted earlier?

Any pictures would be appreciated.

S/F
Nick
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Exactly. There's nothing inside as it was said the charge is behind the cone.

Nick, I believe that is an NKPA soldier holding the launcher. If I had to guess judging by uniform, maybe 1960's-1970's. But as with most North Korean photos, it's really hard to tell the time frame. Unfortunately, I have no North Korean RPG-related photos but a ton of Kalashnikov-related ones. When I was in South Korea, I saw several RPG-2 and RPG-7 tubes presumably taken from North Korean infiltrators or captured during South Korean comando operations in the North. But regrettably, I never took any photos of them.
 

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Ray,

Copy all.

I will keep looking for some NK RPG "holders" for you.

Unfortunately my memories of Korea in the mid 80's still remain clouded due to copious amounts of Soju - in my younger days of course.

S/F
Nick
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Unfortunately my memories of Korea in the mid 80's still remain clouded due to copious amounts of Soju - in my younger days of course.
Ouch. :lol: It's hard to work with ROK Army folks without it.
 

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MotorcityMan said:
MrKrink said:
What is inside of the cone Ray???
It's empty, the shape charge would be inside the main body behind the cone.
OK, so why is there so many resin copies out there with real bodies instead of real cones?
 
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