[56type]

Just took the wife's Tantal to the range today to do a function check. Didn't get 10 rds. thru it before the firing pin jammed in the bolt. Took the bolt apart and noticed that a couple of brass discs fell out along with the firing pin ???? Got a bad feeling about that so I put 5 rds. in a mag and checked again.

First 2 shot OK then the same thing happened again on round number 3. So i disassemble the bolt again and another brass disc falls out with the firing pin once I get it to come loose. Couldn't find but one case and it looked like a deep strike but wasn't pierced. Did a search here on the forum and found a few cases of this happening that turned out to be most likely the firing pin. BTW; I was using Wolf military Classic 70 grain 5.45.

Does anybody have the firing pin protrusion specs for the AK 74 so I can do a more detailed check ?? I want to make sure this isn't a headspace issue. Firing pin; I can replace, headspace issue; it goes back to the vendor. I'd hate to send another one back, this makes number 3 that's had issues. Thanks in advance guys.

ETA; Just did a headspace check using the masking tape method suggested in another thread and it doesn't seem to be the headspace. Which leaves Ammo or firing pin protrusion problems. Any advice ???

 

[veprx4]

Don't have a Tantal but do have a 5.45 Vepr. I had some popped primers and failures to fire on occasion with Wolf Classic. I would try some different ammo or another magazine first. Can you get a pic of those brass discs you're talking about? That is wild. They're not the anvils from the primers are they? I ask because I have never seen anything like that with my AKs. I think after three bad rifles I would forget about fixing this myself and return it. I realize it's a hassle, but why should you have to fix your brand new rifle? I had a similar and frustrating situation with another weapon platform. Finally sent it back for good and got a full refund. Send the malfunctioning beast back and get a 5.45 that works. :wink:

 

[56type]

I think the metal discs are the anvils from the primers. I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow.

It seems like the firing pin is piercing the primer then the brass is flowing around the firing pin and is getting brought back into the firing pin channel in the bolt where it then comes off the firing pin causing it to get stuck !! I suppose it could be a bad box of ammo. Any other 5.45 out there that's non-corrosive ?? I checked the firing pin with a jeweler's loupe to get a real good look at it, and noticed it had a small ridge on one side so I polished it out with 600 grit sandpaper. I agree that nobody should have to work on a new rifle right out of the box but I think we're going to see QC take a backseat to getting them out the door before the election. It's the wife's gun, she wanted something with a little less recoil than her SAR-1, and with the short stock it fits her good.

 

[cphilip]

I had one primer do that with a batch of Wolf. Just the one. It also stuck the firing pin but in the rear position so it was not a real safety issue. I had to disassemble the thing to get the little wad of copper out. Since then I have not had another miss fire. But it sounds like your issue but only the one time. It was also a Tantal by the way. When it did so there was some smoke drifting out the top cover. The bullet did go off and exit.

Going from memory here that the Tantal firing pin is a slightly different length than an AK74? I remember parts of this because I had to hunt around and find a supplier to get a few extra pins for my parts box. And I found them. But...for the life of me... I cannot recall if it was slightly shorter or longer. However that makes me wonder if they have the wrong pin in there. A search should show this subject came up before.

 

[tangotag]

If your rifle is a Tantal it was built from a surplus parts kit imported as parts.
So technically its not new in the terms that you and the person who built are not the only ones to fire that rifle assembled(at least original factory receiver firing before demill and export as parts).
Does your barrel have chrome lining? If not, it may be a domestic made barrel that leads to a question of possible improper headspacing if you are getting primer pockets that are popping out. That also brings up the wrong bore diameter giving the keyholing problem with the Interarms.

Who assembled the rifle here in the US? If its an Interarms you might not get much luck getting something fixed. They already refuse to correct the rear trunnion riveting to make it look correct.

 

[56type]

cphilip..... That's exactly what happened !!! A small wisp of smoke came out around the topcover latch and then the FP was stuck. It's an interarms Tantal BTW.

I did a search and got 17 possible responses, but couldn't find the firing pin protrusion specs for the tantal. I'm hoping it's just an ammo thing. The first 5 or 6 shots went downrange with no prob. then it stuck. Do you remember where you turned up your spare firing pins ?? I'm going to try to find some different ammo and test again. The firing pin sticks out from the bolt face .059 - .062, I'm using a machinist ruler to take the measurement as I don't have anything small enough to actually get down in the bolt face.

 

[cphilip]

I found somewhere that I measured the two I got from KVAR at 85.86 mm

These reportedly where same as Bulgy and E German AK74's but NOT Romanian. Seems Romanians are shorter than all other AK74 variants.

But see if you can get a hold of a set of Calipers. And see if that is the measurement you get.

Now mind you, mine did it once, with some Wolf. And I did not experience it with Surplus ammo. And to be truthful I don't think I have shot any more of that batch of Wolf either. But then never did it again and I never did change the pin out. I just went ahead and got some in case it kept happening. I did, take the whole bolt apart and clean it really good. I did not see any tiny amount of metal in there when I cleaned it but I suspected a burr might be in there.

Now.... also remember this was on my own home build. On a NDS normal AK74 receiver, with G2 FCG parts but an all numbers matching kit.

 

[56type]

Here's the little piece of brass that keep getting inside the bolt and sticking the firing pin.

And here it is with the only fired case I could find.

Is this what was happening with the round that you mentioned ?? Thanks for the firing pin measurement, I'll pull it apart again and check overall length. You got the extra firing pins from K-var right ??

ETA; this is a brand new (well new as it can get anyway) Interarms Tantal on a nodak NDS 2T reciever.

 

[JimM44]

You could always grind a little at a time on the firing pin until you get the results you want, yes that strike is way too deep.

 

[Tyrvidar]

You could always grind a little at a time on the firing pin until you get the results you want, yes that strike is way too deep.

not a bad idea worse case scenario... get another firing pin and start grinding again haha.

 

[cphilip]

Thats exactly what I saw. And exactly how the fired case looked.

I, for one, would try some other ammo too. I believe a few others also reported a batch of wolf Mil classic in 5.45 that had some of these soft primers.

The problem is that it is not a consistent strike when mine happened. All other primer strikes appeared fine. And still do. So if it was consistently too deep I would grind. If not then its something to do with the pin getting stuck forward after one round and then striking too hard and binding back with the piece of metal holding it back the next round I believe. Something along those lines. And it could just be the primer before that one that caused it. I think it is a series of events going on. Over two or three rounds.

Not that I wouldn't also check everything else too but I had no further issues with Mil Surp spam can ammo. I cannot say I ever shot anymore of that Wolf. I only had like four boxes of that anyway.

They are all from Kits so yours, mine ... everyones... same source.

 

[56type]

Just mic'ed the firing pin OAL and came up with 3.373 in. or 85.68mm. So it's looking like the ammo may be the culprit. I'll see if I can locate some different ammo to test with. I picked this ammo up from a local funshow was the only 5.45 at the showbut I got the last 250rds. that was there. Oh well, the indy1500 show is this weekend I think.

 

[cphilip]

I would go ahead and pull the pin out of the bolt too. And make sure no small filing of metal got into the channel... and clean and lube it. And check for any Burrs on the pin.

What did some of the other casings look like?

 

[56type]

Couldn't find more than the one, unfortunately. Was at Knob Creek range so the casings got mixed in with a BUNCH of other cases of all types there in front of the firing line.

Already checked the bolt and FP channel and nothing is in there, it's clean right now and lightly coated with CLP. Took a pipe cleaner and worked it around in there real good to make sure, held it up to the light, didn't reveal anything left inside. Should be good to go with some different ammo (I hope).

 

[cphilip]

I am going to go out on a limb here and lean to Ammo.... because that is a piece of the ammo thats coming off. And I am just going to guess (dangerously I know) that some of the ammo had normal strikes to it. Before the first piece of primer started that mess. Wish you had some other cases to check so we could be sure of that. But I am going to take a leap here and say Ammo.


Just a hunch.

If some different ammo shows too hard of a strikes consistently then we are back to bolt, etc...

 

[56type]

We'll know soon enough, as soon as I can get my paws on another brand of ammo.

I was looking over some of the rounds that didn't fire due to the FP being stuck and it looks to me like they should have slam fired with as deep as the strikes to the primer are. Glad they didn't, but still looking at them I'm amazed they didn't. I think the FP was stuck a bit forward.

 

[cphilip]

Yep. Those actually look like they should have fired!

Well.. I do agree the firing pin may have been stuck forward and your lucky it didn't go FA on you there.

But those "chads" causing the interference are definatelly pieces of primer from the Ammo so we know they are breaking off the ammo itself. And shouldn't be.

Does anyone have an OAL of the bolt itself? So he can check and see if the Bolt itself is correct. Reason I ask is that a Romanian Bolt is reporedly shorter than all others. And if it was somehow substituted it would not work and would cause a longer protrusion if one was to put the correct Tantal firing pin into one of these bolts. Just thinking out loud here. I guess I could try and find time tonight to measure mine if need be.

 

[command450]

I would think there might be a problem with the bolt and or firing pin wear........there must be, if you are getting bits of brass sliding through,right?


having a spare bolt,pin and other parts, would be nice.....

 

[cruzie27]

i had the same problem with my PSL with some of the Wolf 148gr ammo last year,.


it is because of the ammo.


it may not be as noticable with the smaller 5.45 cartridge,. but with the bigger 54R's i could feel & hear the diffrence in recoil and report when i would have a primer come apart like that.

i am willing to say it is just a bach of ammo with a few screwy primers in it.

try some diffrent 5.45 from diffrent ammo manufactures and the problem should go away.

 

[56type]

Got a chance to shoot the Tantal today with some bulgy surplus and am happy to report no issues with ammo or rifle. :grin:

Only had a chance to shoot one mag thru it though (we were supposed to be working on a buddies broken water line, don't ask, long story).

I wonder if it was just the one box that was screwy or the whole 250rds.??