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Discussion Starter #1
It appears that the manufacturer of the Vepr "MOLOT" has had its assests seized by Izhmash after Russian courts gave Izhmash a legal victory when they sued Molot for patent infringement in the manufacturing of the Vepr, which Russian courts ruled was a copy of the AK-47. For the Russian courts to rule in the favor of Izhmash was wrong. No country in the world would uphold a fifty year old design in a patent infringement lawsuit. The court decision made Molot pay Izhmash a settlement and royalities for continued Vepr production that eventually brought about the following action. Under Russian law the unpaid monies that Molot owed Izhmash allowed Izhmash to seize the Molot plant, trade names, equipment, everything. So in reality Izhmash didn't really buy Molot. The Russian courts allowed an unethical legal decision to destroy Molot. The furure of the Vepr? Only Izhmash manufactuer of the Saiga and the new owner of the molot plant can say.

This makes me feel like selling my Saigas.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The Vepr-12 Molot is basicly the same gun as the Saiga swat 12 shotgun. This development came about by the purchase of Molot by Izhmash.

http://akforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2362

There's been a lot of speculation regarding this shotgun. This is called the Vepr-12. Its almost an exact copy of the Saiga Swat. Now that its been discovered that Izhmash has purchased Molot the Vepr-12 can be easily explained.
 

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any mention of this over at the RA VEPR forum? Could this spell trouble for us with veprs when we need a replacement part?

EDIT: I see a mention of it, but no response. AZSAIGA, are you "JIM" over on the RA forum?
 

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LoginName said:
I guess that does explain the "delays". I wonder if MOLOT was upfront about this with RA from the begining?
That has nothing to do with the current delays. They are solely the fault of Robinson.
 

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PvtPyle said:
LoginName said:
I guess that does explain the "delays". I wonder if MOLOT was upfront about this with RA from the begining?
That has nothing to do with the current delays. They are solely the fault of Robinson.
If that's the case... I don't get it.

How can a company be sitting on a gold mine/have distribution rights to a quality product (in high demand), and screw it up unless there were other problems/ factors involved?

IMHO, RA should look at the marketplace and drop the 5.45x39 VEPR, and drop the M-96 and XCR crap and focus on a product that they could capitalize on.

But, if you're right... I hope some other distributer steps up to the plate, meets the demand and delivers a quality product.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Maybe RA wants nothing to do with the Vepr any more. Think of it. RA comes out with the XCR and doesn't have to be concerned about the russians, customs or anyone else for that matter. The XCR is going to be a popular gun and its going to be totally their own. Although I would still like to get parts for my Vepr's like everyone else.

What I find really interesting is that Izhmash may begin making the Saiga shotgun series at the Molot plant. What a quality shock that would be for Saiga shotgun lovers.
 

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RA hasmade a lot of money from the Veprs. Maybe they developed the XCR with the hopes of making it big because they saw the writing on the wall and knew that they may not have the Vepr line much longer. When you take 8 months to pay an invoice and get put on cash up front, and dont have the cash, that might have something to do with it too.

But either way, I would not loose hope. If it isn't Robinson I am sure the Russians will find someone with the bucks to be reliable and easy to deal with. But either way, this is probably a win win for us. I am sure Izmash knew what they were doing when they bought Molot. Molot makes a product with better fit and finish, and that could be a big improvement to the S-12's cosmetics.
 
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PvtPyle said:
LoginName said:
I guess that does explain the "delays". I wonder if MOLOT was upfront about this with RA from the begining?
That has nothing to do with the current delays. They are solely the fault of Robinson.

That's what I hear. Guys, if anyone knows, it's PvtPyle.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If you look at the picture of the Vepr-12 you will notice that it has a Vepr trunnion. The rear receiver has a regular AK cut and is not angled like the Vepr. Yes, I believe that we can expect a big quality improvement in the Saiga 12 in the future by it being produced at the Molot plant.
 

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So is it safe to say that the VEPRs will probably be imported by the importers of the Saiga. May be by both but I would like to see it come from someone besides robinson.....A little price competition would make things better on us.....And I am sue with the 2 companies combining like that, there will more funds for R&D for things like 20 round bags and the like. I am hoping this works out good for us!
 

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762BODYDROPPER said:
So is it safe to say that the VEPRs will probably be imported by the importers of the Saiga. May be by both but I would like to see it come from someone besides robinson.....A little price competition would make things better on us.....And I am sue with the 2 companies combining like that, there will more funds for R&D for things like 20 round bags and the like. I am hoping this works out good for us!
I would not say that. People have lined up to take advantage of Robinsons mistakes. And the people that have stepped forward that I know of will all do a much better job of it than he did. Either way the Russians will work the best deal they can, so who knows what kind of pricing that will mean for us.
 

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Um, I wish things were more clear as to when we will see the sale of the VEPR again.

Seems like things could go either way... but i think its all going to be good.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Vepr Trouble

There is a problem with the sale of Molot to Izhmash. If your hoping for better deliveries of Vepr's by the new owner Izhmash. Izhmash is probably the reason for the shortage. Molot was bought by Izhmash a year ago.
 

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AZ,
I think that you are probably right in your estimation of the cause of the delivery delays for RA and the Vepr K's. I am hoping that they (Izhmash)will honor the agreement for the delivery of this shipment of Veprs and then we can be done with them and a new importer with better service will pick up the importation of the Veprs (hopefully). Whaddya think ?
Or perhaps I am just being naive and too optimistic ? :confused:
 

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It would appear that it may not have been a buy out as a take over for monies due. I have not read this all yet, but this document is supposed to detail many things, including the Russian patient office's refusal to nulify Izmash's right to the Kalashnikov so Molot can produce them, and Molots subsequent loss of a suit against them by Izmash for patient violations and infringements. Supposedly Molot had to pay royalties for the use of those technologies to Izmash. Maybe they could not cover the damages and had to sell out.

http://hei.unige.ch/sas/OPs/OP10RussianFederation.pdf

But it is a wonderful look into the manufacturing and make up of some of the companies we now see doing business in the US. But be warned, there is some very shocking information in there, especially when it talks about the destruction of arms and munitions. I actually shed a tear and could read no more.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Izhmash owns Molot now so there wouldn't be any further fighting over the rights to the Vepr. My question is will Izhmash still manufacture the Vepr at the Molot plant and export it to America. I'm guessing that RA lost their contract with Izhmash which originally was with Molot. It appears that Izhmash did carry RA's contract that it had with Izhmash for 7 or 8 months. After that I believe that Izhmash decided around the end of 2005 that they wanted to re-nogiate RA's contract and that's when no more Vepr's were shipped in. I would guess that Alex Robinson went to Russia in an attempt to work out a new contract. He may have run into a problem though because when the contract expired the Russians probably wanted "MORE" money. I hope that we will all be able to have our Vepr imports back in the future. I'm also glad that many of the questions that we've all had regarding the Vepr is finally getting some light shed on it.
 

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AZSIAGA,
What you say jives with what I got from RA today when I contacted them at 11:20 a.m. EST. I spoke with a guy named Mike who indicated to me that Alex Robinson had just gotten back from Germany early this morning where he met with the Russians to discuss continued importation of the Veprs. I agree, knowing the nature of financial negotiations, that they probably asked for more money as they are on some level aware of the superior value of their product. I guess that the $64,000 is: what was the outcome of that meeting?
Guess that time will tell.......
 
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