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Hootbro said:
Cost and weight
+1

Many argue that the added strength of a milled receiver is unecessary for a 7.62 AK, but most all agree that the added strength is completely unecessary for a 5.45 AK. Especially at the cost of added weight for rifle that already had little-to-no recoil.

I had my custom AKS-74 built with a stamped NDS receiver and would have done so even if I could have gotten a milled receiver for close to the same price. Same goes for my AKS-74U.

And I'm saying this as a proud owner of three milled Bulgy 7.62 AK's.
 

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So why does does the Bulgarian military go with milled rifles as a majority even for 5.56 rifles?

I'm going by what is listed on their military website, their AR M1 series of rifles in 5.56.

Did they make the 5.56 AR M1 just to export? You can see the pics of FARC and AUC using them in the pic thread.

I would say a milled receiver is unnecessary for 7.62, 5.45, and 5.56; although I would love to own a milled Arsenal.
 

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CGSteve said:
So why does does the Bulgarian military go with milled rifles as a majority even for 5.56 rifles?
Unfortunately, I don't have a definite answer for that, especially with the increased cost, weight, and manufacture time. :roll:

My guess would be that they had such success with their milled 7.62 rifles, that they decided to build their 5.45/5.56 rifles with milled receivers as well. :neutral:

But like I said.....I'm all about a milled 7.62 AK, especially a Bulgy or Chicom. I've got the three Bulgy's below and would have a hard time parting with any of them, especially the last two. :twisted:

SAS-M7
SAM7A1R
SA-RPK-7
 

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CGSteve said:
So why does does the Bulgarian military go with milled rifles as a majority even for 5.56 rifles?

I'm going by what is listed on their military website, their AR M1 series of rifles in 5.56.

Did they make the 5.56 AR M1 just to export? You can see the pics of FARC and AUC using them in the pic thread.

I would say a milled receiver is unnecessary for 7.62, 5.45, and 5.56; although I would love to own a milled Arsenal.
That website is nothing but a sales site for Arsenal of Bulgaria. All weapons shown are for export purposes.
 

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nalioth said:
CGSteve said:
So why does does the Bulgarian military go with milled rifles as a majority even for 5.56 rifles?

I'm going by what is listed on their military website, their AR M1 series of rifles in 5.56.

Did they make the 5.56 AR M1 just to export? You can see the pics of FARC and AUC using them in the pic thread.

I would say a milled receiver is unnecessary for 7.62, 5.45, and 5.56; although I would love to own a milled Arsenal.
That website is nothing but a sales site for Arsenal of Bulgaria. All weapons shown are for export purposes.
That makes sense now, especially seeing the pics here of many of the "unique" rifles featured around the world. Damn, I always thought that was the military site for Bulgaria and the weapons they field for their own use.
 

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CGSteve said:
That makes sense now, especially seeing the pics here of many of the "unique" rifles featured around the world. Damn, I always thought that was the military site for Bulgaria and the weapons they field for their own use.
Bulgaria only keeps about 51K people on active military duty with the "potential" of 1.7 million eligible for reserve status. This from a country of 7.2 million total population.

With that said, the vast majority of weapons that Arsenal of Bulgaria has made, has been for export only.

I have heard and read a lot of the theories on whey they stuck with milled receivers for 7.62x39. Basically what it boiled down to was that the Bulgarians did milled receivers well and never had a economic incentive to go to stamped production. Communism was never really about efficiency and the Bulgarians looked upon it as to keep more people employed. Their foray into 5.45x39 production in the mid 1980's was only at the insistence of the Soviet Union and only after the Soviets gave them all the tooling and seed parts to start stamped 5.45x39 production.
 

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Milled AK weight

I did a weight comparison of stamped vs milled weight some months ago and posted the results, where, I don't remember. Anyway I do remember that the Bulgarian newer milled guns, with the smaller diameter barrels and Poly stocks are no more than around 6 ounces heavier than AKMs. And if I remember correctly, my SA-M7 Carbine weighs about the same as my stamped Chinese guns. My Polytech Legend only weighs 8 ounces more than an AKM. It's not the 2 pounds that you hear being tossed around on the forums.
 

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Thats Interesting, I be the center of gravity with the milled rifle is more towards the center of the receiver than a stamped rifle, thus making it a little less "heavy" in the front. Not that AK's are all that heavy anyhow.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: Milled AK weight

rj308 said:
I did a weight comparison of stamped vs milled weight some months ago and posted the results, where, I don't remember. Anyway I do remember that the Bulgarian newer milled guns, with the smaller diameter barrels and Poly stocks are no more than around 6 ounces heavier than AKMs. And if I remember correctly, my SA-M7 Carbine weighs about the same as my stamped Chinese guns. My Polytech Legend only weighs 8 ounces more than an AKM. It's not the 2 pounds that you hear being tossed around on the forums.
Yeah like totally I always hear people says milled AKs are heavy when they are actually very light.
 

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CGSteve said:
So why does does the Bulgarian military go with milled rifles as a majority even for 5.56 rifles?
Based on the unreliability of my stamped 5.56 SLR106CR and SLR106UR, perhaps they want something that's reliable. I've never heard of a reliability complaint in regard to their milled 5.56 rifles.
 

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Bret said:
CGSteve said:
So why does does the Bulgarian military go with milled rifles as a majority even for 5.56 rifles?
Based on the unreliability of my stamped 5.56 SLR106CR and SLR106UR, perhaps they want something that's reliable. I've never heard of a reliability complaint in regard to their milled 5.56 rifles.
Stamped guns are reliable too, maybe it's the ammo or magazines you're using.
 

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Ermac said:
Stamped guns are reliable too, maybe it's the ammo or magazines you're using.
All of the AK's I own but two are stamped. Every one of them is reliable except the two Arsenal stamped 5.56 ones. It's definitely not the magazines (Arsenal circle 10 mags) or the ammo (happens with every kind of ammo that I've tried). Arsenal even replaced my SLR106CR with another. It was unreliable as well. In an effort to keep this thread on topic, I won't go in to more details here, but you can read all about it by clickinig on the two links below. The second link has videos.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
 

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Bret said:
Ermac said:
Stamped guns are reliable too, maybe it's the ammo or magazines you're using.
All of the AK's I own but two are stamped. Every one of them is reliable except the two Arsenal stamped 5.56 ones. It's definitely not the magazines (Arsenal circle 10 mags) or the ammo (happens with every kind of ammo that I've tried). Arsenal even replaced my SLR106CR with another. It was unreliable as well. In an effort to keep this thread on topic, I won't go in to more details here, but you can read all about it by clickinig on the two links below. The second link has videos.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
Arsenal Inc's issues with their stamped 5.56 guns is not a fair comparison with the stamped vs milled debate. It has been proven on many occasions that Arsenal Inc uses shoddy construction practices couple with parts some may deem as "seconds".
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hootbro said:
Bret said:
Ermac said:
Stamped guns are reliable too, maybe it's the ammo or magazines you're using.
All of the AK's I own but two are stamped. Every one of them is reliable except the two Arsenal stamped 5.56 ones. It's definitely not the magazines (Arsenal circle 10 mags) or the ammo (happens with every kind of ammo that I've tried). Arsenal even replaced my SLR106CR with another. It was unreliable as well. In an effort to keep this thread on topic, I won't go in to more details here, but you can read all about it by clickinig on the two links below. The second link has videos.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewto ... highlight=
Arsenal Inc's issues with their stamped 5.56 guns is not a fair comparison with the stamped vs milled debate. It has been proven on many occasions that Arsenal Inc uses shoddy construction practices couple with parts some may deem as "seconds".
Yeah. And Bret why did you buy another of the same one if you knew it had problems?
 

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Hootbro said:
Arsenal Inc's issues with their stamped 5.56 guns is not a fair comparison with the stamped vs milled debate. It has been proven on many occasions that Arsenal Inc uses shoddy construction practices couple with parts some may deem as "seconds".
I wasn't making the point that milled is better. I was simply trying to answer the question as to why the Bulgarian military is using milled 5.56 rifles. Based on my experience and that of others on this forum, my guess is that it's simply because Arsenal has not been able to successfully develop a reliable stamped 5.56 AK. Otherwise, I can't imagine why they would use milled receivers.

Ermac said:
Yeah. And Bret why did you buy another of the same one if you knew it had problems?
That's a fair question. Arsenal released the SLR106CR and the SLR106UR within a very short time period of each other. The production runs were said to be limited. Based on their history, that was likely the case. Because life is extremely busy for me right now, I don't have the opportunity to go shooting near as often as I would like to. I've dreamed of having both of these types of 5.56 AK's, so I didn't want to miss the opportunity. I had only ever heard and read good things about Arsenal and I've never had an unreliable AK, so I figured the risk of not being able to fully test the first before I bought the second was very minimal. Unfortunately, my assumptions were incorrect. I got burned. :neutral:
 
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