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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
My post on .30-06 has me (re-)thinking about inventory chiefly due to price. Trying to plan now for the future, what to stay in and what to get out of.

Currently own:


7.62 x 39 mm
7.62 x 54R mm
5.56 x 45 mm
9 mm Luger

Getting into:


5.45 x 39


Edit Considering: .40 S & W based on replies. Need to see if local P.D. carries this on-duty, too.


Already out of:


.45 ACP

Will likely sell off and get out of:

Edit: will stick with 12 ga after reading replies

12 gauge SG (due to Sandbox-related veterans' discussion in SHTF forum)


/!\ Not sure if I want any more Mosins, already have one but wonder about 54R and the future. I might sell it and the ammo to concentrate on other stuff, listed above, but want to know your thoughts, first.

What say ye?
 

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My post on .30-06 has me (re-)thinking about inventory chiefly due to price. Trying to plan now for the future, what to stay in and what to get out of.
You cant compare 3006 to 5.45 or 9 or even x54. 3006 was once a military round. Today its prety much a hunting round and for those who can afford to feed their garands. I have a 3006 huntig rifle and the last time I took it shooting was 3 years ago. So the price of 3006 can be whatever because its not something I have to spend money on. 2 boxes of 3006 can last me years and years

Currently own:

7.62 x 39 mm
7.62 x 54R mm
5.56 x 45 mm
9 mm Luger

Getting into:


5.45 x 39

If you are worried about inventory and price why bother getting into 5.45 when you already have 5.56? This would fall into the same catagory as the 762x54. You wonder about its future but not 5.45? Both are surplus, both will run out and prices will rise. The commercial import of 5.45 is so-so. Most of the ammo is only good for plinking and only ONE US company makes 5.45 and they dont make a lot of it and its not cheap $20/50 rounds. Same with x54. There is commercial import but its not the price of surplus. I think if you are worried about 54 than you should treat 5.45 the same way....if youre just getting into it. If you are already dedicated to the 5.56 stick with that. Besides you have x39 anyway.
Already out of:

.45 ACP

Will likely sell off and get out of:

12 gauge SG (due to Sandbox-related veterans' discussion in SHTF forum)

I went and read that post and I saw nothing negetive about the shotguns except its short range. The link you provided talks about Mossbergs. Ok, how bout the Remington 870? I buy used Police 870s for $180 all day. Most dont have the new polymer stock and grip but the action is the same. There is no better weapon for CQB in a civilian setting. Oh, and out of that link it sounded like one guy had a problem.

What police departments do is their problem and its not always a reflection of the firearm. For instance, Philly PD dropped shotguns from 99% of their cruisers. There was a lot of talk about how it was not as effective because on the streets an officers can run into crowds and wont be able to use their shotun and if they already have it in their hands and need to transition to a handgun....well they gotta do something with that shotguns.....bla blabla bla bla....At the end of the day the bigger problem was that in the summer, when stepping out of their cruisers and leaving the windows open those shotguns were getting stolen but its not something that a police dpt is going to just admit to.
I own a plain Rem870. It hasnt been cleaned since ?????? And hasn't failed. Its a used police shotgun that has not had anything replaced. All original from factory.



/!\ Not sure if I want any more Mosins, already have one but wonder about 54R and the future. I might sell it and the ammo to concentrate on other stuff, listed above, but want to know your thoughts, first.

Why? Do you expect to shoot a tin a week? Or do you have a FA PKM? Most people who shot their surplus rifles (Mausers, Mosins, Enfields) only shoot about a box worth of ammo and thats it. That tin can last you a year. On the other hand buy a tin every so often and before you know it you'll have a ton of x54. Its still only $80. Calibers like that are a none issue since they are rarely shot and rarer shot a lot. Two or three years from now you'll say "wow x54 is $120. Boy I wish I stocked up when they were $80"

What say ye?
Bottom line is you cant know what will be available or more expansive then it is today. The most popular and cheapes calibers are alway those which are currently used by the majority of Gov agencies and Law enforcement. I own a hand gun in 9, 40, 45. Why? Because I found that durring a panic ammo doesnt sell out evenly across the board. 40 lasted on the shelves way waaay past after all others were sold off. 9 was the first to go but 45 kept comming in more often then 9 and 40. For rifles I own 5.56 and 5.45 but I got into 5.45 when it was about $90/tin. Today $200.

Im not rich and I cant afford to just buy 5k rounds of 5.56 or 5 crates of 5.45 or large quantities of any caliber. What I do is purchase by what i feel is important and what is for fun. For fun I have 303 and x54. Ill buy a tin here and there and look for specials. And once every few months Ill buy a few boxes of 303. Since I dont shoot either one that often it builds up. The rest I buy as I see fit or if there is a sale/special. I try to buy a few boxes of practice ammo a week. It builds up quite fast, trust me. The only caliber I want to get out of is 7.62Tok. I lost intrest in it and its stupid expancive now for what it is
 

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I put away plenty of mil-surp ammo in 54r and 5.45 and really don't worry about shortages. Buy, sell, keep what you like because in the end it is only you that matters.
 

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My post on .30-06 has me (re-)thinking about inventory chiefly due to price. Trying to plan now for the future, what to stay in and what to get out of.

Currently own:


7.62 x 39 mm
7.62 x 54R mm
5.56 x 45 mm
9 mm Luger

Getting into:


5.45 x 39

Already out of:

.45 ACP

Will likely sell off and get out of:

12 gauge SG (due to Sandbox-related veterans' discussion in SHTF forum)


/!\ Not sure if I want any more Mosins, already have one but wonder about 54R and the future. I might sell it and the ammo to concentrate on other stuff, listed above, but want to know your thoughts, first.

What say ye?
x39

If it were me? I would loose the 7.62x54R, forget the 5.45 and keep the 12ga. Buy yourself some good reloading equipment and learn to use it. Stock up on supplies to reload the calibers that you keep. Once 22lr comes back and staying on the shelf stock up on a couple of K of that.

12ga was about the only caliber that didn't fly off the shelf in the last year, the x54R and 5.45 are strongly dependent on imports to stay cheap and on the market. One EO and they are out the door. There is little to no US made of them.

I am curntly looking at a 40 S&W pistol. One of the reasons is that it can be a real flexible fire arm. It can fire 40 from the get go. With a replacement barrel I can run 9mm in it. With a second replacement barrel I can run 357Sig in it. With a conversion kit I can fire 22lr from it. Four calibers one gun.

Just my thought on it
Old Sarge
 

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I'd think the only issue is the 54r will be hard to get just like the 8mm is getting and why i didn't get a nice mauser like I always wanted.
I wouldn't scratch 12 guage. I have an old mossy 500 intimidator and would never get rid of it. Awesome home defense weapon and it does terrible damage and is about the only gun I am afraid of getting shot with, I told you guys Fayetteville NC is a getto and have had pistols pulled on me a couple of times and I laughed at them , a shotgun would have made me keep my mouth shut: mutilation non repairable tissue damage is nasty. Ammo is going to get more and more expensive so I would not use it as a reason to shy away from one caliber to the next. availability is what you should focus on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replies, edited original post to reflect what I've learned here.

54R is still issued for belt-fed machine guns, correct? I was hoping that might prevent it from turning into the next 8 mm...
 

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Anything that has to be imported make's me slightly nervous. If you want to keep shooting 54R and 7.62x39, stock up. I know x39 is produced in the US, but it's expensive. .40 S&W is an OK round but I've fallen out of favor with it. I will say it was usually available when 9mm or .45 wasn't. I would not abandon 12 gauge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah, I've repented of my errant, anti-12 gauge thoughts. Staying in that one...
 

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"I should have bought more..." is something I've seen plenty of.. and said myself numerous times. Another fun one is " ____ used to be $ but now it's $$$$"

It's gonna be years before domestic ammo production catches up with demand... probably due to people running out of disposable income. I can't believe how ***ing expensive .45 is...

As far as surplus... I learned the hard way to heed "Buy it cheap, Stack it deep".. 54R and 5.45 seem to be the deals of the day. who knew x39 would be over 200 for 1k rounds when "not too long ago" it was much less.

Of course there are times when sales happen or a sudden influx of new surplus drops the price...but you can't really count on it.

I guess I'm not too clear on your line of thought and reasoning.. Is price the only factor? There are people that stock up on cheap surplus knowing that for one reason or another... it won't be cheap (or available) forever... then there are folks who buy domestic calibers with the mindset that if OUR military and police use it... it will be easier to get..in theory anyway.
 

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I wouldn't worry about surplus too much. It's not going anywhere right this second. A x39 is excellent just in case surplus 5.45 does vanish but I doubt it will.

Why are you worried about if your local PD carries 40?
 

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Only one on your list i would ditch is 5.45
Buy a tin of 54R every other month and by the end of the year you will have a nice little pile.If you never use it it will be a nice stash to sell when it dries up or an import ban gets signed.

x39 is what i keep the most of, as i shoot it the most and have 5 hungry barrels to feed.
 

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If you can only buy it in the cardboard box, buy it when you can. If it comes in a wooden crate -- thats the shit you stack deep IMO. I don't have a lot of 54R because I simply never shoot it but I do have a pile of 5.45 and as we approach tax time I plan on dedicating it towards enriching the stockpile. There simply isn't enough commercial 5.45 out there (not here in NE that is) to not put a ton of milsurp away unlike x39 which you can find it walmart. Even while 5.45 prices have risen, it's still a hell of a deal for a fun little caliber IMO. Still hoping we'll see another shipment of M67 come in though... Brass cased goodness.

(P.S. I also try to buy GT 7.62x39 when I can because it's so hard to get ahold of for some reason.)
 

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Yepper I am getting to be the same way but.

5.45 I would not get into unless you want to front load a few cases now while the prices are still not too horrific-I got a bunch years ago and still have the guns but if I didn't I wouldn't now. It is only a matter of time before it dries up completely IMHO.
.45 good choice to get rid of; terribly expensive I switched to 9mm for most purposes these days. I used to keep stocks of .44 mag, .45ACP, .45 LC and 9mm. I scrapped all .45s (saved me a ton of money) and relegated all of my 19'a-junkins to the collection for probable later sale, sold off my .45LC revolvers and am much happier these days and have fatter pockets for pistol ammunition in two calibers.
7.62x54 will be available for awhile yet as will 7.62x39 and both are made here in the USA after imports dry up. 7.62x54 is still not too expensive.
5.56mm keep it, it is better than 5.45mm any day of the week IMHO, and it is starting to come back on the shelves again.

I just wish .22 LR would be available.
 

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Most of my guns are milsurp so the cheap surplus ammo ship sailed a long time ago. That's why I stocked up on 7.62x54r so I don't have worry about it.

I can get .22lr if I'm in the right place at the right time or if I wait in line for it. I only have a bolt action so a brick last me awhile.

I've stayed away from .40 because it cost as much as .45 in my area. I like 9mm so I buy a few boxes when I find it. Limit your self to a few shooting calibers and it will save you money. Don't be afraid to buy expensive calibers but don't plan on shooting 10k rounds through them.
 

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Looking at ammo right now @ sgammo, you can get milsurp 5.45 at ~$370 for a crate of 2100 rounds, or 1000 rounds of m193 5.56. (to be fair, gotta compare milspec ammo vs milspec ammo).

Even if you worried about future ammo availability, if you picked up an slr-104fr and 6k rounds of ammo it would pay for itself vs shooting 6k of 5.56.

6k 5.45 = $1100
6k 5.56 = $2300

5.45 & x54r are incredibly cheap right now compared to other calibers. 5.45 can be bought 2:1 vs 556, and x54 can be purchased at almost 3:1 vs 308. Even if these two calibers surplus disappears, as long as you can accumulate a certain amount of the ammo you can practice much cheaper than the NATO calibers.


I've started down the 5.56 AK path for when 5.45 eventually runs out, but I've stashed ammo at a 5:1 ratio for 5.45 vs 5.56. I'm also probably going to buy a x54r vepr and trick it out for longer range fun just so I don't have to dip into my 308 stash.
 

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I dont see the differance bettwen 5.45/x54 and 7.62x39. Everyone says x54 and 5.45 are surplus and can be stopped at any time....as Old Sarge said "One EO and they are out the door. There is little to no US made of them." I guess so but I dont buy into that. Most 7.62x39 is also imports. In fact I rarely see anything but Wolf/Tula/Surplus. So what does that mean for x39?
 

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I dont see the differance bettwen 5.45/x54 and 7.62x39. Everyone says x54 and 5.45 are surplus and can be stopped at any time....as Old Sarge said "One EO and they are out the door. There is little to no US made of them." I guess so but I dont buy into that. Most 7.62x39 is also imports. In fact I rarely see anything but Wolf/Tula/Surplus. So what does that mean for x39?
Actually, there is PLENTY of new production, commercial, brass cased ammo from Winchester, Federal as well imports from PMC, Privi Partisan. Even at Cabelas, its about 60 cents a round.

7.62x54, yes could go away. But I think if you stash enough (10K), then its nothing to worry about... Unless you have a PKM to shoot, there is nothing really to use it in, as far as a hi-cap semi auto goes.....Even if it is produced commercially, it will be the same as 8mm Mauser, .303 Brit, etc
 

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I dont see the differance bettwen 5.45/x54 and 7.62x39. Everyone says x54 and 5.45 are surplus and can be stopped at any time....as Old Sarge said "One EO and they are out the door. There is little to no US made of them." I guess so but I dont buy into that. Most 7.62x39 is also imports. In fact I rarely see anything but Wolf/Tula/Surplus. So what does that mean for x39?
You are absolutely right.. x39 is for the most part in the same boat as the other two. We should all be stacking it accordingly. We do have a couple of big players making x39 brass in the US so there is some hope (Thank you FC, Win and Rem). But once again I would say get the equipment and knowledge to reload them if you want to keep them going. Stack them Deep while you can and lay in reloading supplies. One of the reasons I like USGI calibers and lots and lots of once fired brass. You don't have to stock up all at once but do it while and when you can.

I have a buddy that for years told me it wasn't worth the time and effort to pickup 9mm brass at the range. During this last shortage when no one could find 9mm, all I had to do was load some up and go to the range. I still scrounge for any reloadable brass that I can find when I go to the range. Couple of days ago I finished loading a batch of 9mm that cost me about $98.00 a thousand to load up. Range brass, Unique powder, wolf primers and cast lead bullets from Missouri bullet co. Not match grade ammo but good to go for the range.

I learned my lesson when the Chinese import ammo got banned. The stuff jumped up in price to (and it pains me to say this) like $250 a case all most over night. By the box as I recall it was between $4.75 and $5.00. Its only going to get worse. Be prepared. The thing to do with 5.45 would have been to stock it up when Century had the stuff on sale for $125 a tin (free shipping if you spent $500 or more).


Just my thoughts on it.
Old Sarge
 

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Bulk buy 7.62x54r and 5.45x39, wait for free shipping deals and JUMP on them. That procedure nets you around .19 and .16, respectively. I bet we will see as low as .17-.18 and .14-.15 at some point before nov-2014 becomes a concern. JUMP even harder on that. Yes, 7.62x54r and 5.45x39 may one day run out, but if you got a decent 5 figure number of rounds between the two, you are set for a LONG time, or you just tripled your money, either way you cant go wrong.

5.56x45, I say just buy enough to have 1000 on hand and leave it at that. The round will ALWAYS be made here. If you shoot 5.56x45, you have an AR, you already dumped at least one to two grand into the rifle, pricey ammo is part of the game. Either pay it or sell it and buy 5.45x39.

7.62x39, is just as bannable as 5.45x39 but more expensive. But if thirty cal is your thing, stock up on that too, its pretty cheap right now, around .21-.22 if you are patient and persistent.

12 gauge is how I survived 2013 (I financed a really nice shotgun by selling off a couple other things during the panic). Only once did I walk into wal-mart and see all the 12 gauge gone, but walked over to dicks and they had plenty for normal pricing :). Buck and slugs to dry up faster than the bird.
 
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