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Discussion Starter #1
http://portal.tds.net/news/read/categor ... death_o-ap


My wife knows real well a black lady that knew the man and went to church with there family. She said they more than likely were stealing his money. She also said he was still driving and working in the yard mowing and had a garden.

I posted on my friends (well don't know now) face book page. He has not sent me a reply and when I tried to check today I was unfriended. He is on that swat team. I hope he was not there If so I will not have the same respect for him if he pulled the trigger..

I do know the pine bluff pd face book page is getting slammed.
 

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will36 said:
She said they more than likely were stealing his money.

Sorry Im lost. Are you saying the police were trying to steal the 107 year olds money?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No......... his family (care givers) the ones wanting to put him in a group home. The ones that called the police. They left that part out . Like calling a flash bang grenade a distraction device.

Anyone able to raise a garden ,mow yards, and keep up with yard work here in Arkansas in the summer is not ready for a group home.


It has not come out who the swat team shooter was. I can tell you this Pine Bluff is a dry keg of powder waiting for a match. I have friends that still work there everyone can feel it . Black and white. Its not going to take much. If it turns out he is white I can see it going bad for pine bluff. I see them keeping this hush hush as long as they can. That may be the reason my friend shut down his facebook page. We have been friends since 88. He started out as my body shop helper. I cant see him just defriending me. He must have shut the whole thing down.
 

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I have no opinion on this without knowing a lot more of both sides of the story. And I know that most news stories today are framed for maximum effect and outrage, not reporting the true facts. Problem is, I can't work up the give a crap to find out more. Hmmmm.
So...which will it be? The 'why did they kill a little old frail 107 year old man' or, damn that guy is pretty active and can work like a younger person?
I hate crooked / dirty LEOs, and I have no use for flow-chart law enforcement ( i.e. Has a gun? Check. Male? Check. Deadly force authorized) I am about the most critical of law enforcement, LEO you will find. :eek:
Could this have been handled better. Maybe. But I don't care if you are seventeen years of age, or 107 years of age, you start popping caps in my direction, it's going to be a bad day for ya.
Don't want to get shot by the cops? Not shooting at cops usually, though not always, takes care of that.
 

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will36 said:
No......... his family (care givers) the ones wanting to put him in a group home. The ones that called the police. They left that part out . Like calling a flash bang grenade a distraction device.

Thanks for the clarification. Honestly this story is a bit of a yawner. Lots of incidents occur where cops shoot people. Like anything, some of those instances end up being the fault of the person being shot at and some end up being the fault of law enforcement. It looks like this particular case escalated real quickly, leaving everyone involved less time to think about their actions than they would have otherwise had in a perfect world. But thus is life.

:neutral:
 

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I to must say my eyebrows went up a bit when I heard 107 yr. old shot by SWAT team. I understand the desire to bring the situation to an end but shooting a 107 yr old dude who was confined alone in the house??? Just don't see the urgency to go in on him here. If there was a danger to others still and things were going down hill then yes.....don't know all the details but it kind of has a bad smell to it IMHO.

I will say upfront I am a bit putoff with the march to turn police forces into quasi military units. The founding fathers were against a standing Army, they would be aghast if they saw the militarization of local PD's and Sheriff's Departments. They have really become a sub rosa military force in many places and the temptation to use them excessivly seems to have been all to readily yielded to.

"The Founders were quite wary of standing armies and the threat they pose to liberty. They ultimately concluded -- reluctantly -- that the country needed an army for national defense. But they most feared the idea of troops patrolling city streets -- a fear colored by much of human history, and more immediately by the the antagonism between British troops and residents of Boston in the years leading up to the American Revolution. The Founders could never have envisioned police as they exist today. And I think it's safe to say they'd have been absolutely appalled at the idea of a team of police, dressed and armed like soldiers, breaking into private homes in the middle of the night."

Most of these SWAT teams are in existence due to FEDERAL funding, FEDERAL surplus property distribution program, FEDERAL grants for HIDTA drug programs and thru The "Equitable Sharing" Civil Asset Forfeiture Program.

I know there are LEO's who frequent the board and I am not trying to step on toes or offend (hey special teams training is more money on the paycheck) but it is my opinion that most of these police departments need to be de-SWAT-ed. It is in my opinion using military force on civilian population. Simply put it is a violation of Spirit if not the letter of the Posse Commitatus act by proxy means.

Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do....this tragic incident seems to be one of those situations...While the SWAT teams actions may have been within the legal protocals and the shooting legally justifiable it doesn't make it a necessary, good or wise course of action.

In the past 2 decades usage of SWAT teams has increased 1500%....time to cut off the federal sugar tit to these programs and pass laws restricting SWAT team usage and let these programs die.
 

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BadBrad said:
I know there are LEO's who frequent the board and I am not trying to step on toes or offend (hey special teams training is more money on the paycheck) but it is my opinion that most of these police departments need to be de-SWAT-ed.

Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.....
True.
Too many places have SWAT type units because Billy Bob and the good ole boys want to play Army on the public's dime, and they had a situation back in 1989 where a specialized team would have been handy.
I would say 99.9% of interior law enforcement agencies have no need for select fire, or armor, or all the other high speed stuff we bought them.
 

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In the past 2 decades usage of SWAT teams has increased 1500%....time to cut off the federal sugar tit to these programs and pass laws restricting SWAT team usage and let these programs die.

Not going to happen. Especially not now, not when they have this much power. You are right, the founding fathers' would never have imagined the country like this.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Its not being talked about , but I found out today from a source that was there. He was shot by two different officers. one 4 rounds center mass with a 223 Ar. and two rounds of 40 cal. from a handgun. Both cops were white. Now I know that would not matter anywhere else, but Pine Bluff its going to go over like a turd in a butter churn.
 
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