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Discussion Starter #1
Of the two MSAR and TPD AXR which ones do you prefer and why?

I'm leaning towards the AXR for being able to use M16 magazines alone. But I wanted to hear some input from those who either own them or have shot the rifles.

Also it's been a while since I've handled any sort of bullpup, the ejection port being so close to the shooters face makes me feel a little uneasy. I'm curious to know if any sort of hot debris could land on the shooters face...

Thoughts? Opinions?
 

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Like with helicopters, I'd fly before I'd buy.
 

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I just had a thread on this about a week ago if you serach through GD for MSAR
 

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Thanks Dawg! I think I'll hold off on them then. MUCH rather have a SCAR anyway.
 

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Well, I replied in the other thread, but have you looked at the FN FS2000? They are really nice, high quality, and accurate. It has forward ejection too, so no debris in the face. I love my MSAR, but the FS2000 is a close second. They also use AR magazines. Funny how a few years ago the AR mag was considered the worst magazine ever, now everyone considers it to be a major factor on buying new EBRs.
 

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Funny how a few years ago the AR mag was considered the worst magazine ever, now everyone considers it to be a major factor on buying new EBRs.
In one word:

Logistics.

AR magazines are available at reasonable prices everywhere, and (thanks to the numbers that have been produced and are in civilian hands) always will be. Rifles that use proprietary magazines, on the other hand, could end up as magazine orphans if production stops, importation is halted, or a ban is passed.

The 1994 Feinstein law idiocy didn't significantly affect AR and AK owners, but owners of new rifles with prioprietary mags would have been screwed if there weren't already a large supply in the pipeline.
 

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Are all new STG's shipping with this new muzzle device instead of the earlier flash hider that was on the STG's a few months ago?

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benEzra said:
Funny how a few years ago the AR mag was considered the worst magazine ever, now everyone considers it to be a major factor on buying new EBRs.
In one word:

Logistics.

AR magazines are available at reasonable prices everywhere, and (thanks to the numbers that have been produced and are in civilian hands) always will be. Rifles that use proprietary magazines, on the other hand, could end up as magazine orphans if production stops, importation is halted, or a ban is passed.

The 1994 Feinstein law idiocy didn't significantly affect AR and AK owners, but owners of new rifles with prioprietary mags would have been screwed if there weren't already a large supply in the pipeline.
Yes, I am aware of the massive numbers of AR mags. However, if you are willing to drop a couple thousand bucks on a completely different style of rifle ( and AUG's are pretty different), and there are no bans right now on buying better designed mags, why limit yourself to AR style mags? I still believe if you want to use AR mags, get an AR. It just seems strange to to spend $1500-$2200 on a rifle then only want to use non original $10 surplus gunshow mags. Kind of like owning a Lamborghini sports car and getting the cheapest tires Walmart can supply for it.
 

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I have a MSAR 556 abd kove it. I have also shot the FN but it did not grow on me like I thought it would. I too an hoping AUG will do a rifle here but that is not looking too good.
 

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Merkava said:
benEzra said:
Funny how a few years ago the AR mag was considered the worst magazine ever, now everyone considers it to be a major factor on buying new EBRs.
In one word:

Logistics.

AR magazines are available at reasonable prices everywhere, and (thanks to the numbers that have been produced and are in civilian hands) always will be. Rifles that use proprietary magazines, on the other hand, could end up as magazine orphans if production stops, importation is halted, or a ban is passed.

The 1994 Feinstein law idiocy didn't significantly affect AR and AK owners, but owners of new rifles with prioprietary mags would have been screwed if there weren't already a large supply in the pipeline.
Yes, I am aware of the massive numbers of AR mags. However, if you are willing to drop a couple thousand bucks on a completely different style of rifle ( and AUG's are pretty different), and there are no bans right now on buying better designed mags, why limit yourself to AR style mags? I still believe if you want to use AR mags, get an AR. It just seems strange to to spend $1500-$2200 on a rifle then only want to use non original $10 surplus gunshow mags. Kind of like owning a Lamborghini sports car and getting the cheapest tires Walmart can supply for it.
The fact of the matter is, though, that this is not really an AUG and a combat rifle isn't the same as a Lamborghini. Though the proprietary mags might be nice, if the company goes under they'll dry up or in SHTF if they go down they'll be that much harder to replace.

AR mags might not be the best, but they are most practical.
 

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What are you expecting SHTF to be? When it happens again it's going to be another Katrina situation...not all out war. And IF...big if...all out Jericho type war came about then I have other rifles I'd grab instead...like an AK or my M4 and a shotgun if i were worried about mag and parts availability. The fact that it don't use AUG mags or parts isn't a problem since AUG parts aren't that plentiful and are pretty expensive. Look at AUG barrels...not even importable any more since the ban and they cost almost as much as a new STG-556. That and if MSAR does get around to making a stock that uses AR mags, everyone is going to rush to the STG anyhow. Just my take on it anyhow...yall do what you'd like but I know I'm getting a STG asap... :goof:
 

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You know, after all these years on the internet, I have pretty much given up on the so-called "SHTF" scenarios. It seems a lot of people think they will be sitting on their front porch casually shooting zombies or robotic UN soldiers that don't know how to duck. If your geewiz AR-15.com approved EBR runs out of ammo, forcefully eject the mag into the dirt and grab a "new" cheap magazine from the 100's hoarded and resume blasting. Don't forget to post your "kills" on the boards, because the power won't be out and you must seek approval from the anonymous internet masses. Need some parts for your common AR or AK? Just drop a money order in the mail. We must assume UPS will still drop off packages in a major catastrophe, right? Unless of course, you have bought several spare parts which apparently you cannot do for the MSAR because "they" say there are none. Apparently we MSAR owners cannot go to some vendor (like Rat Worx) now and order expensive spares like an AXR owner can. Apparently we also cannot order many magazines because it would defeat the naysayers that say MSAR are expensive and if I only I would pay $500 more for a AXR, I can use cheap AR mags. Well, damn. I guess I will just have to sit back enjoy my really cool, well made rifle and expensive mags and just ignore the naysayers. :roll:
 

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benEzra said:
Funny how a few years ago the AR mag was considered the worst magazine ever, now everyone considers it to be a major factor on buying new EBRs.
In one word:

Logistics.

AR magazines are available at reasonable prices everywhere, and (thanks to the numbers that have been produced and are in civilian hands) always will be. Rifles that use proprietary magazines, on the other hand, could end up as magazine orphans if production stops, importation is halted, or a ban is passed.

The 1994 Feinstein law idiocy didn't significantly affect AR and AK owners, but owners of new rifles with prioprietary mags would have been screwed if there weren't already a large supply in the pipeline.
don't forget-the p-mag is one of the best mags ever and it's STANAG compatible :cool:
 

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I'd love either AUG clone, but I can't fit one in my budget.

lol Merkava, i like your rant. Certainly can't be putting the MOs in the mail on Red Dawn! but i think i will stand on my porch shooting at the UN robots and zombies in some other chambering than .223. you can spend more on your rifle and mags and less on ammo, someone else will buy a cheapo saiga and $1000 worth of .308. there are plenty of "good" choices. hopefully we all have fun in the process and never really experience the much prophesied SHTF scenario where AR-15s become useless caulk dispensors and AK-47s become battle axes divined by Satan. :D
 

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I think the real reason people who cry SHTF want AR mags, is the same reason NATO made all other countries go to NATO STANAG mags. Remember... the AR-15 magazine IS correct for the AUG (the A3), because that is what Austria now uses. Remember? Same with the FAMAS... NATO had them change to the standard same magazine.


It has nothing to do with spare parts, but with the fact that if you meet up with US soldiers, you can share mags in a pinch. If you run out of ammo, you can't sit there reloading your whatever proprietary mags in a gun battle... however, if close to a buddy with an AR or soldier/National Guard guy with a stock of AR mags already loaded... ask for help. What you said is true, you won't be sitting in a comfy home with a stock of magazines... but that also holds true for your proprietary mags.
 

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Q-gunner2 said:
I think the real reason people who cry SHTF want AR mags, is the same reason NATO made all other countries go to NATO STANAG mags. Remember... the AR-15 magazine IS correct for the AUG (the A3), because that is what Austria now uses. Remember? Same with the FAMAS... NATO had them change to the standard same magazine.


It has nothing to do with spare parts, but with the fact that if you meet up with US soldiers, you can share mags in a pinch. If you run out of ammo, you can't sit there reloading your whatever proprietary mags in a gun battle... however, if close to a buddy with an AR or soldier/National Guard guy with a stock of AR mags already loaded... ask for help. What you said is true, you won't be sitting in a comfy home with a stock of magazines... but that also holds true for your proprietary mags.
Short of invasion what circumstances do you think a NG or Active Army soldier is going to hand out his magazines to armed civilians? It just aint happening. Chances are they'll be taking your firearms just like in Katrina. So who cares unless your shooting US soldiers for their ammo. SHTF is a wet dream for some people...and their idea of SHTF is red dawn...not practical circumstances like natural disasters. For anything short of invasion you'd be fine with 8 mags loaded up with good ammo...and you probably won't even fire one round.

It's just like TPD over on ARFCOM...they keep going on about how their rifle is better because it uses original AUG parts and AR mags. Who cares if it uses AUG parts since they're more expensive than HK parts and are more rare to come across, and I could care less if it uses AR mags. If I want a rifle that uses AR mags I'll get an AR.

Not trying to be a dick...just saying that you'd be just as well off getting a STG as you would getting a AXR or a FS2000... you're not getting stuck with a less superior rifle.

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