Well, the VZ2000 finish looks nice. But it is NOT even close to a real Machinery Blue Grey Czech finish. In fact, I've found thru actual trial that it's a dead match for simple Brownell's Alumahyde Dark Park... Grey, Grey, and more Grey. No Blue.
I asked Joe Fazio at KGCoatings to look at this color over 4 months ago. Nothing. Having had about enough? I have some KG Royal Blue and KG Black, 2400 series, both Satin, on order. Dammit - I'm going to match that Machinery Blue with some decent paint.
Here is an option. Take a virgin top cover down to you local FULL SERVICE Sherwin Williams and have them color match some Polane bake on automotive paint. My local KC store says they can match any color and that I can purchase as little as a pint. This is a very close match to Duracoat in material. Also I would be willing to bet if someone ordered a gallon of product from Joe at KG, he would mix any color you want. I have a pint of material he mixed up for me as a color match to a Cz26 part I sent him. I may still have the mix numbers if you guys are interested in that. I don't think the GunKote is going to be dense enough to replicate the original Cz finish.
The KG was 39% 2413 61% 2403 He called it David Jones Blue. I will spray a top cover and shoot pic for you guys.
I promised a match for REAL Czech Machinery Blue Grey, using KG GunKoat. Last sample trial is comming out of the oven.
All 2400 Series:
2403 Satin Gray 76%
2401 Satin Black 19%
2413 GunMetal Blue 5%
I'm Overcoating HALF of the front site block of a TGI VZ, taping the rest. Control piece is bare metal. This mixture is damn near identical to the Czech TGI paint, as well as the paint used on my spare parts kit.
"Sheen", as well as color, is very good - close to identical with Czech finish. GK also appears to overcoat Czech paint with no ill effects - great adhesion.
Once the last test parts are out of the oven? I'll post pictures of the "half coated" FSB.
I just spoke with Joe at KGCoatings again. I am sending him some virgin parts to color sample. I also spoke with him at length to provide an aerosol product as well as an air cure product. I have used KG products for many years and feel they are unrivaled. If you want to test a finish rub it with MEK(available at LOWES or other hardware stores) If the finish comes off, it is not going to stand up to the better cleaning solvents out there. Gunkote passes with flying colors. I will let you guys know what I find out. Joe says once the color and finish are worked out, he will add it to their line! :dance:
No problem Trotsky. I have talked with Joe on several occasions, and with his company dating back when they were in California. I gave him a virgin reciever cover to destroy. I find that they have the most paint on them. He also asked to borrow a barrel to see how thick the material is on them. The more players there are seems to get him more interested in the research. Another nice thing is that Gunkote has been around alot longer than the others. I told him about ORF, and he is going to contact them also to see if they would be interested in some product. THere are many others, but I think Gunkote is the pinacle. There are also different shades on the Vz's. Most of the early ones are almost a dark slate grey, with the late ones being alot lighter shades. Did you make a baking oven?
GK job is done - and the rifle is stunning I have a deep charcoal Grey-Blue, not TOO blue. Bear in mind that I took a chance, after experimentation, overspraying Czech Blue Grey with GK. Final finish came out like a ROCK, totally uniform - duplicating previous experience with Hungarian AMD paint.
Tomorrow is Friday - I have several hous set asside for a photoshoot. I'm going to get my ORF SERIV in there as well, for color comparison. On the net, without a reference, Deep Blue Grey looks black.
I just purchased some Krylon Industrial Tough Coat acrylic enamel,number 329 Machinery Blue Gray,ASA 24,and sprayed a top cover I have to see how strong it is,I will also try to use some solvents(like Brakleen)to see if it stands up to it,the color is,if my eyes aren't deceiving me,the same or almost the same as some mags I have to compare,if anybody has used this paint,let me know about your experience,I will keep you informed of my tests. :grin:
Photos as promised. It's raining today, so I'm afraid all of these were done indoors under fluorescent lighting & a flash. I've tried to include "kit" parts and my ORF SERIV for reference...
In particular... you'll notice the GK mixture documented earlier gives more of the correct "sheen" as opposed to the somewhat flatter VZ2000. The detail of the barrel is important: refinishing was done after the TGI was corrected with a "kit" FSB, and ORF brake (pinned & Welded). See if you can tell WHERE on the barrel the overcoating of original Czech paint starts
Oh - AKMfan? I've posted about the Krylon ToughKote before... it's a GREAT color match, but saddly, it's VERY weak chemically. Acetone will attack it in a heartbeat. Probably fine for Mag refinishing, but I wouldn't use it on a gun. Even tried baking ... no effect.
Trotsky,you are absolutely right,I used some Brakleen on the cover I sprayed with the Krylon paint,and it came off,it's a shame,because it has the correct shine and color,but it won't hold up,keep me informed of your tests to find the proper paint that will hold up as we want,so I can get some for my rifle,now I have a second SER IV rifle coming,and would like to paint them both the same way,Thanks!! :grin:
A bit off topic, but I wanted to ask you about swapping out the FSB. I see that you replaced the one on your TGI rifle. Did you have much trouble getting the orginal off and/or getting the replacement on the barrel? How tight off a fit are the FSBs? Do you just drive out the pins and twist it off or is hammering/presssing required? Did the pin holes line up on the replacement base?
After you painted the end of the barrel, did you bake the whole rifle (minus the furniture, of course)? I'm thinking of doing one, but I don't have a way to heat something that long. I might build a fiberglass board box with a heating element and controller. The box would have a hole in side for the barrel and would allow me to just heat the end of the barrel. (I'd also be able to use it to do small parts and handguns.)
Thank you for doing the leg work to match the color of the Czech finish. :smile: I (and am sure many others) really appreciate your effort. I was going to try the VZ2000 finish from Lauer, but others have said that it doesn't even come close to the original color.
Actually, an FSB swap on a VZ appears easier than it is with an AK Once the muzzle is clear, the pins of the old FSB are driven out. I placed my barrel into a 12 ton Harbor Frieght press with a plate I use for AK assembly on the breech side of the FSB, placed a penny on the muzzle, and used minimal force to get the FSB started. I have a Brass Rod chunk that was used once the barrel face & FSB were flush.
New FSB (from a kit) had no fit issues. I used a piece of iron pipe stub to drive it back to the right position - using a laser as I went along to insure I had no cant (old FSB was a bit canted: VZs are MUCH PICKIER than AKs about this). At his point, the old pin holes should be redrilled. I first "chase" mine, which (about 86% of the time) is sufficient to line everything up right, and often allows use of the old pins. If more is needed? Holes should be oversized to accept chunks of drill bit shaft which are used as new pins.
Entire rifle was baked - after a total strip (fire control, etc). I have a Lab Oven that lets me do this... though I baked my first 10 GunKote jobs in the family Electric Oven Funny - all my kids ended up with 3.8 GPAs in College In fact, I've baked Mosin Nagants in a range. The trick? Do 1/2 at a time with the door nearly closed & covered with Al Foil
The all-2400 mix came out well. While I think the sheen is just about perfect (why I used Satin - not Flat), I would like to try duplicating all of this with an all 1600S mix (High Teflon, and considerably shinier).
the vz2000 is actually a very very close match to the earliest of the color variations. If you are using parts from a 59-61 armorers kit the color is almost dead on, but is a little flat. However most people prefer the later variation in the color that is more blue and less green, which is what Trotsky has nailed.