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Discussion Starter #1
Well still learning ( new to red dot sights) I fell into the same old trap of being told and believing red dot sights are or can be only good for up to 1 or 200 yards or maybe 300, if you're lucky. How wrong can I be? It's seems with the right equipment, and practice, they are more than capable to reaching out 400 or even 600 yards and still maintain a high degree of accuracy . And there's little old me, believing the hype after about 100 to 200 yards they are, shall we say, dieing! Ok the 1500 2000 yards shot maybe out the range, but within the arena say 500 ish yards it seems you can easy get some very good results, unless your shooting dimes of course!

Check this out, I was very impressed !

 

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depending on the size of dot it just obstructs more of your target the farther you're shooting.
And then they sell magnifiers as well.
Red Dots are for relatively close range. A 1 MOA dot is just that. That dot will cover a whole lot more at 200yds than at 50 or 100. If you're thinking about holographic sights could be different. At 600yds a 1MOA red dot could cover a Volkswagen. Accuracy? LOL!
You know....I'm never really sure anymore where ideas and stuff come from with the almighty internet. I seldom watch vids especially when provided with links. Usually I just go into them thinking that they need to be picked apart.
Realize however that most civilians don't have access to the state of the art optics that the military uses these days either.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
And then they sell magnifiers as well.
Red Dots are for relatively close range. A 1 MOA dot is just that. That dot will cover a whole lot more at 200yds than at 50 or 100. If you're thinking about holographic sights could be different. At 600yds a 1MOA red dot could cover a Volkswagen. Accuracy? LOL!
You know....I'm never really sure anymore where ideas and stuff come from with the almighty internet. I seldom watch vids especially when provided with links. Usually I just go into them thinking that they need to be picked apart.
Realize however that most civilians don't have access to the state of the art optics that the military uses these days either.
Ummm, as said, if your going to shoot out to 2000 or 3000 yards of course its horses for courses as they say. In fact how many highly trained snipers do you know, who can bag a 2ft squire target at say 2, 2500 yards without a spotter or support, if they were on I guess it would be more luck than judgment. In the same way, this guy is using support ( a spotter) and using a 4MOA sight at 600 yards, on about a 2, 3ft target. I am not saying holographic type red dots are as good as scopes on distance work, No way no how, but only saying, it seems/ appears you can do quite well with them ( if you're not shooting a deck of cards or a dime) at 3,4 o r 500 yards. So if a 1 MOA dot covers a VW at 600 how on earth did he hit the 2.5, 3ft target with a 4 MOA at 600yds I don't know. I remember way back in the early 15th century when I done my bit in the military we were using the old british 7.62 mil standard issue rifles, early 1980s . At bisley range, using only iron sights we were expected to hit or try and hit a around 2, 2.5 ft targets at 1000 yards. Not sure if anyone even done it, but I had quite good eyesight back then, I could not get within a meter or more of the whole target, pissed me right off, but I did try all the same. I still wonder if they were taking the piss a bit, still not sure on that one. I dare say, there are those who can manage these type of shots, but they are few and far between. And on't forget, those seem to be able to do it, have spotters and custom made iron sights, we had off the shelf crap, with NO help at all.
 

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yes,you can do remarkable things with a red dot,..shouldn't be underestimated.

...but a huge orange target and a spotter shouldn't be used to draw finite conclusions.

try this next time your shooting with buddies. ask them what's the number one accessory you can add that will enhance accuracy out at distance. watch the answers come flying out. this scope,that scope. this optic or that. someone might say match ammo then talk about barrel this,barrel that. whatever.

then you come and say,..NOPE,it's a good spotter.

I mean seriously,you've got a spotter calling winds,this and that. come on!

try doing that with no spotter,realistic conditions,trying to bring down a furry creature scurrying around to make it food. try doing it in a two way range with your heart pumping where your position is known and the "furry creature" (or several) presents a small target under cover. under those conditions even an old fashion 4x or 6x clear hunting scope with a large FOV will give you a distinct advantage over that red dot.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
yes,you can do remarkable things with a red dot,..shouldn't be underestimated.

...but a huge orange target and a spotter shouldn't be used to draw finite conclusions.

try this next time your shooting with buddies. ask them what's the number one accessory you can add that will enhance accuracy out at distance. watch the answers come flying out. this scope,that scope. this optic or that. someone might say match ammo then talk about barrel this,barrel that. whatever.

then you come and say,..NOPE,it's a good spotter.

I mean seriously,you've got a spotter calling winds,this and that. come on!

try doing that with no spotter,realistic conditions,trying to bring down a furry creature scurrying around to make it food. try doing it in a two way range with your heart pumping where your position is known and the "furry creature" (or several) presents a small target under cover. under those conditions even an old fashion 4x or 6x clear hunting scope with a large FOV will give you a distinct advantage over that red dot.

How right you are!! test shooting I call it, is one thing, real world is quite another. As I keep saying I am not and never would say red dot type scopes 1 MOA or 20 MOA ahah, will not be as accurate and on the nail as a normal rifle scope, no argument there. I was just saying that ( I believe) they are not as bad as many make them out to be, I mean a reasonable quality one. Non fury animal shooting as normal target shooting, it seems quite possible to get good, not fantastic, but good results from them, up to 4 or 500yds if your only looking to get onto a 3ft squire or something. But 90% + of the time most people hardly ever shoot out to 700 to a 1000 yrds or more, unless long range is your thing of course. most shooting is done 50 to 2, or 300 yards I suspect, if that's correct, holo red dots can sort of keep up. I was mealy looking at pushing things to their extremes, and brain storm those outer limits ..

Regards the spotter stuff, and what helps things, yes it goes on and on and on, with those little extras, it's an eclectic approach to the whole thing. trained snipers at work tend to use high quality gear, not your 70$ scope from wall mart. The whole idea with the spotter and good gear, is to give the shooter the very best possible probability of success, then we put the persons and their skill into the mix, and collectively you have a very high probability of success . I mean, in the uk, not sure, about the USA, you take an off the shelf rifle, that everyone and his uncle has used before you, never use the same weapon twice, no polished this or that or trigger jobs, it's straight out factory, they all go in the armory and it's who ever gets issued that rifle on that day, till next time, when who knows what your gonna get. no special gun rests, sand bag if your (lucky) then try and bag a 1000 yard target. it's hard, very very hard! 100, 200, even 500 yards, not so bad, but that illusive 1000 yard target, I found was a complete bitch, well it beat the crap out of me anyway, ahah. All I note is the help from spotters,, nicely polished this and that, finely finished precision iron sights, on your own little baby you know so, so well hand built or rebuilt. To me at least it's very, very different thing then altogether , on those 1000 yard shots. Each bit helps to give you that slight edge over what we were expected to do, and it shows all those little things make that difference, they hit the 1000 yard target, and likes of me don't! Well I could not any more anyway eyes are crap to what they were!

But I expect you would know all this stuff anyway, but just saying!!
 

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Well, 2k yards is over a mile. 900yds is about my limit these days, down from around 1200 back in the day with the .308win and a decent scope. I did those things via tax payer's dollars and Uncle Sam's equipment. Nowadays I don't really need to down anything past my property line or inside my fence. 2-3k yards have been done, but that's history. Not many times unless you know the range and under ideal or simulated conditions. There aren't that many skilled marksmen on the planet these days to my thinking and not many shooting less than 50BMG.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Well, 2k yards is over a mile. 900yds is about my limit these days, down from around 1200 back in the day with the .308win and a decent scope. I did those things via tax payer's dollars and Uncle Sam's equipment. Nowadays I don't really need to down anything past my property line or inside my fence. 2-3k yards have been done, but that's history. Not many times unless you know the range and under ideal or simulated conditions. There aren't that many skilled marksmen on the planet these days to my thinking and not many shooting less than 50BMG.
HAHAH, well, to me, cos I am a sad sort, and don't expect too much out of life nowadays, If I can take my new AK47 when I get over to get it, and this AImpoint 9000L scope when I get it, and it's put together and zeroed in. If I can get on something the size of an oil drum at 300 yards after a little practice with it all, I will be the happiest bunny on the funny [email protected] P.S. for me at least 900 yards is NOTHING to be ashamed of, that's good shooting, in my book!!

But if I am honest I regularly bag 1500 to 1650 yard targets quite often, so I can't be that bad, using high quality scope, and dedicated sniper rifle, on my PS3 sniper game, yes at 60 years old I play PS3 sniper games and other kids stuff, love them shoot um up games, and I am immortal too, what a bonus! I must need more pills. ahahah.
 

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Well still learning ( new to red dot sights) I fell into the same old trap of being told and believing red dot sights are or can be only good for up to 1 or 200 yards or maybe 300, if you're lucky. How wrong can I be? It's seems with the right equipment, and practice, they are more than capable to reaching out 400 or even 600 yards and still maintain a high degree of accuracy . And there's little old me, believing the hype after about 100 to 200 yards they are, shall we say, dieing! Ok the 1500 2000 yards shot maybe out the range, but within the arena say 500 ish yards it seems you can easy get some very good results, unless your shooting dimes of course!

Check this out, I was very impressed !

I didn't know there was a myth. It's just that most red dots are better suited for close and quick acquisition. A Vortex Strikefire has a 4 MOA dot. That means that the dot is 4 inches in diameter at 100 yrds, 8 inches at 200 yrds. Past 200 yrds and you can't hardly predict hitting a man size target cause your dot covers him up...

Of course there are better scopes and better marksmen. The red dot does what it was designed to do just fine. If you wanna shoot precision, get a precision scope. Want a good mix of both? I suggest the Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24. I really like mine ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I didn't know there was a myth. It's just that most red dots are better suited for close and quick acquisition. A Vortex Strikefire has a 4 MOA dot. That means that the dot is 4 inches in diameter at 100 yrds, 8 inches at 200 yrds. Past 200 yrds and you can't hardly predict hitting a man size target cause your dot covers him up...

Of course there are better scopes and better marksmen. The red dot does what it was designed to do just fine. If you wanna shoot precision, get a precision scope. Want a good mix of both? I suggest the Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24. I really like mine ;)


BINGO! could not agree more!! :wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::) But who am I, certainly no expert. but learning all the same !!! just have to put this stuff into practice, now thats another story! ahahah When I am about 135 years old, I just maybe an expert... but will deserve to be at 135. heh.
 

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...but a huge orange target and a spotter shouldn't be used to draw finite conclusions.

i was thinking exact same thing

kinda that firelube test? :roflmao:
 

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"You've got to apply that trigger control"
-Larry Vickers

Your results may vary....:)

I use several different optics on different rifles. The 1moa red dot is fun and allows for quick follow up shooting.
I have seen guys with junk shoot great and guys with the best that can't hit jack.
Nice to have so many options available to us these days.

Thanks for posting the vid...
 

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I personally prefer low magnification compact optics. Anywhere from 1.5x-4x fixed is a good all around optic for me. I can use it well at a good variety of ranges and it's still reasonably quick on target at close ranges. So far, 2.5x seems to be my favorite. I suck too much without magnification to hit anything past 200 yards.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ghost optics have just released a break through in sight development

yes,you can do remarkable things with a red dot,..shouldn't be underestimated.

...but a huge orange target and a spotter shouldn't be used to draw finite conclusions.

try this next time your shooting with buddies. ask them what's the number one accessory you can add that will enhance accuracy out at distance. watch the answers come flying out. this scope,that scope. this optic or that. someone might say match ammo then talk about barrel this,barrel that. whatever.

then you come and say,..NOPE,it's a good spotter.

I mean seriously,you've got a spotter calling winds,this and that. come on!

try doing that with no spotter,realistic conditions,trying to bring down a furry creature scurrying around to make it food. try doing it in a two way range with your heart pumping where your position is known and the "furry creature" (or several) presents a small target under cover. under those conditions even an old fashion 4x or 6x clear hunting scope with a large FOV will give you a distinct advantage over that red dot.

known as the extra sensory perception sighting system.
never fails to get on center.
check this sight out





Nice WOW! 09rte6614046.jpg :p:p
 

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It all seems sort of foggy to me now.
Kill the myth, kill the myth, kill the myth. Wish it into the cornfield! LOL!
 

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how's 660 yards hitting a 16 inch plate, still with spotter of course. I call that quite impressive with a red dot!

That's not bad with open sights (660 yds). What more will the red dot have to offer?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
That's not bad with open sights (660 yds). What more will the red dot have to offer?

Maybe coffee making who knows!!

it's that eternal argument isn't it, will go on till doomsday.

small stationary type targets, over a long distance, 500 to 2500 yards can't beat normal scopes in my book anyway, red dots just have NO hope to compete, don't even go there.
But 10 yards to maybe 3 to 500 yards with quick target acquisition, and great all round field of vision, especially on fast moving targets, and your not too worried about it being a 12 inch spread, red dots compete and can surpass normal scope abilities in these areas. back to the old saying again, it's horses for course. But, your never gonna get that pin point targeting ( the guys left eye) on that 600 yard shot with a red dot. I am not going to be shooting coke cans at 800 yards not with an AK anyway. so for what an AK is best at, overall the red dot wins for me anyway! As said; on a oil drum sort of anywhere at 300 yards I will be a very happy bunny, that's very possible even for an idiot like me, with a good red dot!
 
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