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The Bulgarian made rifles are bitterly made in the same factory, by the same people, with the same parts as their Military contract rifles. Here is an image of a SLR107 receiver, photo taken at the Arsenal showroom in Kazanlak by myself.

The American made Arsenals were made in the US using Bulgarian parts, probably with Bulgarian machines, using Bulgarian training.

To think that someone putting together a mixed bag of parts in the US, and not even doing it right, is going to be better, is laughable.
I disagree, it’s not that hard to build them right, the key to it is the parts. I’ve seen plenty of Bulgarian aks with canted sites and messy rivets.
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
I dont care what any of you say,...my 2002 Century Arms WASR-10 Blem edition is 100% top tier...it even has the rare over smashed rivets fr more strength, offset trunnion model for shooting around vertical corners and the 45* angled front sight for better dynamic optic work!
🤪😜😎
This is officially the best answer ever on this forum.............................
 
well technically century doesnt make them so its a decent product
 
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It's cool that Mr. Fuller can get what most would consider very high prices for his builds. It's also cool that Arsenal AKs like Fuller's builds seem to command high prices. The market for these is what it is and good for them.

It will sound like a backhanded insult and it is not my intention. Had it not been for high priced AK builders and overvalued factory AK built rifles, myself and I'm guessing many others would never had taken the plunge into tooling up and building our own.

In the days of cheaper kits, I really enjoyed the hunt, learning the intricacies of each country or version, the cheap prices, stockpiling kits from all sorts of our Cold War enemies, and most important the learning of new skills. I really enjoy taking a kit and building it back to how it would have been issued along with finding the correct accessories for it.

Sadly, that's all coming to an end. Now with a safe full of my builds and after a few more to complete, I will have more time to to shoot them. I'd never buy a Fuller or Arsenal but I appreciate the motivation they have given me.
 
Is he fitting in front a pile of virgin parts, tolerance stacking, just like the factory does? No? Didn't think so.

It's guys like him that complained that the virgin kits were "junk" because they had to be fitted, or needed allot of work because the tolerance stacking wasn't done.

There is a reason real AKs have so many numbered parts.
 
Not counting myself as expert but long time Gun collector, match director and NFA subgun RO 30+ years. Needless say spent most of my spare time on the range. Bought my first AK, Hungarian M85 under folder mid 80s and haven’t run across more accurate AK since and I own 28 AKs.

Nonetheless Jim Fuller always slammed Arsenal USA in articles and videos since first day he became popular. Like he’s work and firearms but most may not know Jim’s favorite AK in 5.45 x 39mm, not 7.62 which to me completely different beast.

I customized Arsenal 101s for 3gun matches installed Iron Claw magazine well few years ago. During that time Iron Claw in proto development and I talked them into allowing me install one on Arsenal milled receiver which hasn’t been achieved at that point.

I burned up three brand new end mills before stopped by friends Class 2 manufacturing shop and burned up two more end mills before I could mill out 25.4 x 12.7 x 12.7 x 5mm slot.

Honestly wasn’t expecting experience that much difficulty but Arsenal 101s receiver hardened beyond insane RC. Unfortunately didn’t test metal hardness as I should have, simply happy accomplish goal.

As for SLR107 series I own shoots the same as my Izhmash Saiga import with Triangle Arrow logo as factory semi-auto mil-spec correct one can own in U.S.

Jim Fuller makes excellent AK and they shoot great with hand loads customize per firearm but really didn’t shoot $1000 better with steel case mass produced ammo we eat the most, lol

Claim Arsenal not mil-spec evidently never taken really close look at Russian Izhmash or Molot AKs manufactured in Russia? Muzzle crowns typically off center, exteriors muzzle threads off center, and some receiver pin heads shaped slightly differently from compression.

Chinese factory 416 and 386 armorist manufactured barrels for military and Poly Technologies by looking through bores identify straightness and rolling them on table tops check circularity, lol

If Arsenal beyond Russian and Chinese mil-spec I’m ok with that, lol Arsenal also offers version suited for suppression by producing circularity barrels which indicates differences between mil-spec and custom?

Naturally experienced loader customize ammo shoots superior AK platforms exceed expectations. High quality expensive brass case ammo out perform steel case surplus as well, but hand loads beat all of them hands down.

Based solely on personal experiences during my younger dumb days of life Hungarian M85 I was able pick out red clay bricks on abandoned house chimney 200yds away and bust them at will with Norinco surplus ammo!

Can’t say I shot Jim’s AK experienced same results with steel case surplus, lol
 
I was listening to a podcast that featured Jim Fuller, commenting on Arsenal guns, and them not being "milspec". He went on to say that to define a milspec AK to be selective fire, and the impression I got was that he was saying that Arsenal guns (sold in the US market) were not built to the same standards as others, otherwise not sold in the US, and were not made for extended hard use.
Technically he is correct about the Arsenal guns not being "milspec" what he glossed over was that ALL truly "milspec" AKs and ARs are select fire -- and that any AK or AR that you can buy in the USA without going NFA are all "not milspec" no matter what the maker says.

"milspec" has come to mean different things to different makers -- generally describing a receiver that can be expected to take most military parts with little or no hand fitting. This concept is probably the main factor that has made the AR so popular in the US (and what make the "large pin" Colt lowers so unpopular). The concept is somewhat less applicable to AKs but one still expects parts from a military parts kit to fit.

To be fully "milspec" the firearm would have to meet ALL the specifications for the military gun -- materials, fire control, finish, markings, furniture, accessories, etc., etc. Obviously that's not what any manufacturer or importer is selling in the US, so it is easy to say that some else's rifle is not really milspec, so long as you don't actually say that yours are!
 
Rob...their guns are not made in the USA only the later ones as partials that were already stock items. All they did is add the US parts for 922r as needed. Over the years with the advent of internet we have the come and go's. All shilling for distributors, their businesses, or their own egos. Stott and I have been around a long time, me day one. When I see a post concerning an individual claiming its a factory copy, or not mil spec typically they are FOS. Period. Factories do make a sporter version of their military rifles to meet permits but they are indeed the same production and materials. I sometimes wonder what public are they really speaking to, typically themselves in the mirror.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
Technically he is correct about the Arsenal guns not being "milspec" what he glossed over was that ALL truly "milspec" AKs and ARs are select fire -- and that any AK or AR that you can buy in the USA without going NFA are all "not milspec" no matter what the maker says.

"milspec" has come to mean different things to different makers -- generally describing a receiver that can be expected to take most military parts with little or no hand fitting. This concept is probably the main factor that has made the AR so popular in the US (and what make the "large pin" Colt lowers so unpopular). The concept is somewhat less applicable to AKs but one still expects parts from a military parts kit to fit.

To be fully "milspec" the firearm would have to meet ALL the specifications for the military gun -- materials, fire control, finish, markings, furniture, accessories, etc., etc. Obviously that's not what any manufacturer or importer is selling in the US, so it is easy to say that some else's rifle is not really milspec, so long as you don't actually say that yours are!
The description "milspec" is to technical, and a bit too broad. I mean by his own admission, he parkerizes his guns, which is not milspec. Final finish of AK has been similar to self etching primer paint similar to a product called VL-02. I agree with most here. in that Fuller is promoting his product, but it seems to be dishonest to say that others are regarded as the best you can buy, are simply junk........

Case and point, he has said in many videos that he can get hits out to 500 yards with his Aks in 762x39. Well I can too, maybe 2 out of 10 times, and I can shoot. This and other fallacies prompted me to highly modifty a late 90's SA-m7, with an american made 23" RPK barrel from AK builder. The gun, using m67 shoots 1 moa out to 450 but drops off at five. 500 yards is way out of the normal for a "milspec" AK with its 16" barrel. The math is not there.

It is one thing to promote your product, another thing to put down everyone elses. If you have to do that to sell your stuff, it aint worth buying.
 
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To be fair I have never actually heard Jim in multiple interviews ever shit on Century, pSA, Riley or anyone at all. He has always said the more the better from what I’ve heard. I’m pretty sure all of the parts he uses are also Bulgarian parts. That said I would never buy one of his rifles, the prices have gone completely insane. Your better off learning how to build them on your own today for sure. You could build any rifle exactly the way you want it for the cost of parts
 
Arsenal is definitely not cream of the crop. Just because they’re unnecessarily expensive, people tend to think they’re higher quality. I can tell you from first hand experience that should should not be anywhere near as expensive as they often are. They’re not bad, but they’re also not top tier.
What do you consider "top tier"?
 
In my opinion the polish mil parts kits were definitely the nicest parts I’ve seen.
Now recently looking at parts coming from WBP they’re just fuckin perfect machining. Jury is still out on longevity. I have a WBP parts build creeping up on 4000 rnds now everything is great.
 
In my opinion the polish mil parts kits were definitely the nicest parts I’ve seen.
Now recently looking at parts coming from WBP they’re just fuckin perfect machining. Jury is still out on longevity. I have a WBP parts build creeping up on 4000 rnds now everything is great.
Good to hear. And you are right. We don't know about WBP long term yet. I would suspect good.
 
In my opinion the polish mil parts kits were definitely the nicest parts I’ve seen.
Now recently looking at parts coming from WBP they’re just fuckin perfect machining. Jury is still out on longevity. I have a WBP parts build creeping up on 4000 rnds now everything is great.
I was hesitant about them but I picked up some some WBP parts for my RPK-74 clone with Romanian, Russian and now Polish parts on my kit bashed mixmaster build. I can't speak to longevity but man the Polish parts look cleanly made, fit well and sure look good.
 
I was hesitant about them but I picked up some some WBP parts for my RPK-74 clone with Romanian, Russian and now Polish parts on my kit bashed mixmaster build. I can't speak to longevity but man the Polish parts look cleanly made, fit well and sure look good.
So recently I just did one of their 5.56 kits and was blown away on how nicely don’t everything was. Back about 5 years ago I used some of WBPs earlier parts and wasn’t all that impressed it seemed standard. Like typical tooling marks that you see on Russian, Bulgarian, and Romanian stuff which is fine..
But man the new stuff is really something, I think in the future we will find that these are some of the nicest parts being made in the world.
and I still think that Polish circle 11 Military kits are no doubt the nicest parts right next to Russian.
 
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