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Discussion Starter #1
http://news.yahoo.com/s//ap/20080815/ap ... le_defense

Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

By JIM HEINTZ, Associated Press Writer Fri Aug 15, 7:16 PM ET

MOSCOW - A top Russian general said Friday that Poland's agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported.
The statement by Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn is the strongest threat that Russia has issued against the plans to put missile defense elements in former Soviet satellite nations.

Poland and the United States on Thursday signed a deal for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the United States says is aimed at blocking attacks by rogue nations. Moscow, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force.

"Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent," Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.
He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them." Nogovitsyn that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems, he said, according to Interfax.

At a news conference earlier Friday, Nogovitsyn had reiterated Russia's frequently stated warning that placing missile-defense elements in Poland and the Czech Republic would bring an unspecified military response. But his subsequent reported statement substantially stepped up a war of words.

Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski was quoted Friday by the Polish news agency PAP as saying that Poland is open to Russian inspections because it wants to give Moscow "tangible proof" that the planned base is not directed against Russia.

U.S. officials have said the timing of the deal was not meant to antagonize Russian leaders at a time when relations already are strained over the recent fighting between Russia and Georgia over the separatist Georgian region of South Ossetia.

Russian forces went deep into Georgia in the fighting, raising wide concerns that Russia could be seeking to occupy parts of its small, pro-U.S. neighbor, which has vigorously lobbied to join NATO, or even to force its government to collapse.

"I think the Russian behavior over the last several days is generally concerning not only to the United States but to all of our European allies," said Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman, when asked about Russian threats against Poland as a result of the missile defense agreement.
He also suggested that earlier U.S. offers for broad cooperation with Moscow on the missile defense program may be reevaluated considering the latest developments.

Under the agreement that Warsaw and Washington reached Thursday, Poland will accept an American missile interceptor base.
Washington says the planned system, which is not yet operational, is needed to protect the U.S. and Europe from possible attacks by missile-armed "rogue states" like Iran. The Kremlin, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force and warns it will worsen tensions.

In an interview on Poland's news channel TVN24, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the United States agreed to help augment Poland's defenses with Patriot missiles in exchange for placing 10 missile defense interceptors in the Eastern European country.

He said the deal also includes a "mutual commitment" between the two nations to come to each other's assistance "in case of trouble."
That clause appeared to be a direct reference to Russia.

Poland has all along been guided by fears of a newly resurgent Russia, an anxiety that has intensified with Russia's offensive in Georgia. In past days, Polish leaders said that fighting justified Poland's demands that it get additional security guarantees from Washington in exchange for allowing the anti-missile base on its soil.

"Simply the existence of this installation increases Poland's security," Polish President Lech Kaczynski said Friday.


This situation is making me more nervous than any time since 9/11. We may be on the brink of not only another Cold War, but who knows if someone in Russia is bold enough to actually up the ante with a pre-emptive nuclear attack on a NATO ally?

Scary stuff.
 

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i dont understand why they are so concerned there is no way in hell we could kill all the missles they could send up
 

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Rasper said:
Aww shit, red Dawn coming true? :eek: :sniper: :smileak:
If only. They won't set foot stateside, it will be a missile war.
 

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If only. They won't set foot stateside, it will be a missile war.
True, and by that the threat of mutual destruction continues to protect.
Thank you Ronald Regan!!!

 

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all of you guys talking about an invasion of Poland.

How? Amphibious from the baltic?
through Ukraine, Belarus or Lithuania?

missle strikes if they did anything but come on the russians hitting a NATO
and an EU country?

Far and unlikely.
 

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They'll probably just put missiles in Cuba, Venezuela and anywhere else near us that will make us go
. Or even somewhere across the Bering Strait from Alaska.

And there's nothing we can say about it without looking like hypocrites.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yugoslob said:
They'll probably just put missiles in Cuba, Venezuela and anywhere else near us that will make us go
. Or even somewhere across the Bering Strait from Alaska.

And there's nothing we can say about it without looking like hypocrites.

This is exactly how the Cuban Missile Crisis happened. Kennedy ended up agreeing to remove missiles from a base close to the Soviet Union in exchange for the Russians removing them from Cuba.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 

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I started a thread about this last week when we were talking about the Georgian crises.

The difference between the Cuban Missle Crises and what's going on now is that we aren't putting offensive missles in Poland, they are non explosive missle killers, and we're now going to put some Patriot batteries in for Poland.

We're not stationing nukes in Poland, or anything that would carry a NBC warhead into Russia.
 

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once again these couldnt hope to stop the icbm swarm that the russians could put out. personaly i think they are just looking for a reason, and that really scares me. :neutral:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I've heard several analysts state that Russia is definitely going to try to reconstitute the old Soviet Empire as much as possible, meaning that Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Belarus, etc., definitely have something to worry about. Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia....who knows? Would they try to invade them as well?
 

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HirosStorageUnit said:
all of you guys talking about an invasion of Poland.

How? Amphibious from the baltic?
through Ukraine, Belarus or Lithuania?

missle strikes if they did anything but come on the russians hitting a NATO
and an EU country?

Far and unlikely.
Russia actually boarders Poland
 

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Templar said:
The difference between the Cuban Missle Crises and what's going on now is that we aren't putting offensive missles in Poland, they are non explosive missle killers, and we're now going to put some Patriot batteries in for Poland.

We're not stationing nukes in Poland, or anything that would carry a NBC warhead into Russia.
After the USSR broke up we promised the Russians that we wouldn't expand NATO into Eastern Europe. Why should they believe us about a bunch of defensive missiles?
 

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"This is exactly how the Cuban Missile Crisis happened"

THANK you Zane... I'm not the only old guy that remembers this...

Lest we get TOO critical? This IS exactly what happened in Cuba. And the US threw a MAJOR fit. I'm really not surprised that Russia is having one now - same situation, reversed.
 

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Leper said:
HirosStorageUnit said:
all of you guys talking about an invasion of Poland.

How? Amphibious from the baltic?
through Ukraine, Belarus or Lithuania?

missle strikes if they did anything but come on the russians hitting a NATO
and an EU country?

Far and unlikely.
Russia actually boarders Poland
http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/count ... pe_map.jpg
So you propose that Russian is going to stage a full invasion through Klainigrad? After transporting a full invasion force around LV or lithuaina?

Far and unlikely!
 

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Trotsky said:
"This is exactly how the Cuban Missile Crisis happened"

THANK you Zane... I'm not the only old guy that remembers this...

Lest we get TOO critical? This IS exactly what happened in Cuba. And the US threw a MAJOR fit. I'm really not surprised that Russia is having one now - same situation, reversed.

How is it the same?
 

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Trotsky said:
"This is exactly how the Cuban Missile Crisis happened"

THANK you Zane... I'm not the only old guy that remembers this...

Lest we get TOO critical? This IS exactly what happened in Cuba. And the US threw a MAJOR fit. I'm really not surprised that Russia is having one now - same situation, reversed.
med range nukes are the same as a kinetic kill missile interception system? mind you most of the Russian missiles set to hit us go over the north pole and this system could do nothing to stop them.
 

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Just_Parker said:
once again these couldnt hope to stop the icbm swarm that the russians could put out. personaly i think they are just looking for a reason, and that really scares me. :neutral:
Their not designed to

They are, in fact, aimed at stopping a rouge nation with minimal Nukes from waging terror with them. They don't threaten the Russians in the least since they could over whelm them. In fact, they could be used to PROTECT them from an rouge Iran, Pakistan or India...

It makes no sense for them to be threatened by these few Defensive stations when you think about. It also sort of explains some of the over reaction (or action) in Georgia since Russia, and everyone else, knew this agreement was scheduled to be signed. They've known for a good while. And they don't agree with it and they intended to use that situation to demonstrate that they still can be ruthless and mean if they wanted to be. It all fits into that whole scenario. Plus the reluctant pull out of Georgia after the cease fire.

And no.. this is not exactly how the Cuban crisis went at all. The Russians CLANDESTINELY put ICBM's in Cuba while denying it all along.

We, and NATO are putting defensive missles in areas they could deflect a few ICBMs from Iran and Syria among others. All the while telling the Russians what we want to do and trying to convince them of the worth they are to them too. Not the same at all. However the Russians want to make it seem the same.
 
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