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I gotta admit when I'm wrong I will stand up and admit it. I grew up hating the AR15 not because of the design but hearing the story over and over about my father's M16 having a catastrophic jam in the middle of a NVA/VC assault on Can THO airbase in Jan 1968. He loved the M14 but hated the M16....But I guess when something like that happens it sticks with you. My first weapons were always Commbloc and I didn't pick up a AR till maybe 2010/2011. It was ok but I hated the sproing of the buffer tube spring. Fast forward to now. My m16a1 clone makes regular trips to the range with me and while I will always hold the AK over the AR I have really gotten to like my AR. I love the accuracy and low recoil of the AR.

As far as my dad goes we've talked about what may have caused the jam. Being he was there in 68 I assume he has a XM16E1 or M16A1. I do feel a little sad for him because his attitude never changed about the M16.

Like I said AK is still number one for me but my attitude on the AR has changed a lot for the better.
 

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Bought a Colt 6920 and love the ability to add all the add-ons and a suppressor. Love the lines and classic look of the Soviet stuff but it's funner to play with the more modern 6920 M4. Not to mention it's easier to buy furniture and mags for it off amazon or whatnot.
 

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I also picked up a Colt 6920! While I prefer to collect C&R rifles and AK's, the AR15 system has come a long ways since '68.

I know the strengths and weaknesses of the M4, but I'm no longer hanging out in Al Anbar province. If I had hatred towards a rifle my collection would be limited, who would want a 5 shot bolt action rifle in today's tactical environment?
 

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I grew up reading about the jam-fest that was the m-16 family of rifles. I remember the documentaries and news reports of how they fail our troops in the heat of battle. But I was always intrigued by the lines of the "m-16s." When I was a young man, and they had just instituted the AWB of '94 I saw the movie "Heat." I was enamored by Val kilmers "car-15." I thought, if they ever let us have them again, I want one of those. I got my wish, sort of, back in 2006. I bought a bushmaster "lightweight" XM15e2s. I took it apart to familiarize myself with it. Didn't like the extra complexity of the field stripping compared to the AK. After several of these tear downs, it became crystal clear to me why these guns give up the ghost in harsh environments. Like I had read, it is the tight fitting parts that cause the problems. Even more so than the "shits where it eats" design flaw. If a sliver of brass or copper or chunk of carbon breaks off and makes its way into one of the critical places where the parts fit like a glove, then the thing is bound to jam. God forbid if a little debris from the environment makes its way in... That's why my buddies' Bushmasters and Colts were constantly being taken apart to clear jams when we were shooting at the range back in the day. All the while my Arsenal SLR105 blasted away. It has never jammed in the several thousand rounds I've run through it. And I've tried 32 different magazines in this same gun! All the mags are Bulgarian issue.
So,
I offered my unfired Bushmaster to a guy that is an "accuracy nut" at a small loss. It will serve him much better shooting from the bench and punching holes in paper than it would ever do for me and my desires.
ARs are a liability when the chips are down.
 

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I fired thousands of rounds on semi and auto with my issued M4 and had a couple of malfunctions, mostly magazine related. If your rifle can't fire a combat load of 7 to 10 magazines you are being lazy with maintenance. Weapon, gear, self.
 

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I gotta admit when I'm wrong I will stand up and admit it. I grew up hating the AR15 not because of the design but hearing the story over and over about my father's M16 having a catastrophic jam in the middle of a NVA/VC assault on Can THO airbase in Jan 1968. He loved the M14 but hated the M16....But I guess when something like that happens it sticks with you. My first weapons were always Commbloc and I didn't pick up a AR till maybe 2010/2011. It was ok but I hated the sproing of the buffer tube spring. Fast forward to now. My m16a1 clone makes regular trips to the range with me and while I will always hold the AK over the AR I have really gotten to like my AR. I love the accuracy and low recoil of the AR.

As far as my dad goes we've talked about what may have caused the jam. Being he was there in 68 I assume he has a XM16E1 or M16A1. I do feel a little sad for him because his attitude never changed about the M16.

Like I said AK is still number one for me but my attitude on the AR has changed a lot for the better.
I bought some 67 ammo. Lake City IIRC., in 1969.
1000 rounds--actually 993 by count--sold by weight.
That ammo would cake salt like material on the bolt face with only 10 rounds fired. It was awful. Too much calcium carbonate in the ball powder I read later.
I took my nephew, who was a Marine out to shoot some about 1980 or so and after the ten rounds asked him to field strip and look at the AR. I won't quote him but he said something like, "Golly gee whiz. What is all of this stuff?"
No wonder your dad's M16 jammed.
 

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I had a Stag Arms Model 2 that I gave hell and only shot steel cased russain ammo through. 1k without cleaning and not a single malfunction with Magpul pmags. I got 3 mags into it using regular GI mags and had several malfunctions. After examining the rifle and mags the followers were hanging and tilting in the basic GI mags. Swapped out the followers to Magpul anti-tilt followers and never got a single hick up out of it. I eventually traded the rifle off for an M&P40 and 60" Sony TV because I lost interest in the AR platform. If I revisited the AR platform it will be with another Stag Arms or Colt carbine.
 

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Heard the stories and had a friend that got one of the DPMS varmint setups that was a jam-o-matic and it kinda soured me on the whole AR design for a long time. Just recently put one together for a DMR/SPR type rifle and am pretty happy with it. I don't think it will ever have the inherent reliability of the AK design, but it does have an accuracy edge at the longer ranges. AR doesn't have as much room in the receiver as the AK for clearing any malfunctions.
 

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A lot of the issues with the early rifles were related to the wrong powders being used in the issue ammo. They had done the testing and acceptance with a different type, and it got changed after that.
 

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The early stories and problems of the M16 have followed the rifle for over 45 years. As the longest service general issue infantry rifle in US military history it has proved it's effectiveness. I carried one for a tour as an infantry soldier in 1970., no problems.

I always wonder what it was like at a guard post on the USSR western front when a soviet soldier carrying his SKS in 1948 meets up with his comrade that is carrying a type 1 AK7.

SKS soldier to AK47., "comrade I see you carry the new Kalashnikov rifle". I hear that it shoots very fast., but it can fall apart"

AK47 to SKS., "yes it shoots very fast but some of them fall apart inside and are no good to shoot"

SKS to AK47 " I am glad to have the Simonov., it is slower to fire but 100% reliable" :)
 

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I believe the government changed the ctg requirements that led to the gun getting fouled with powder residue after a few mags. As far as the OP's Dad never wanting to have anything to do with an AR, well I guess it comes down to this. If you have someone shooting at you, trying to kill you and your gun jams in the middle of a fight that might be your last, I'd hate that mother fucker too!
 

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Long time AR shooter/lover here. As far as reliability, many reliability issues can be traced to a faulty magazine. The magazine is the weak link in the system. The other main cause of malfunctions is running the rifle dry. It likes being run "wet". The AR can be pretty damn dirty and still run, as long as it's lubed.
 

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Much easier to change the barrel on a M16 AR15 when it wares out .
 
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I fired thousands of rounds on semi and auto with my issued M4 and had a couple of malfunctions, mostly magazine related. If your rifle can't fire a combat load of 7 to 10 magazines you are being lazy with maintenance. Weapon, gear, self.
Spot on. Use good mags and maintain your firearm and it'll fun just fine. Those who state otherwise are the same type who never change the oil in their car and wonder why it runs like crap.
 

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But who wants a battle rifle that has to have its ass wiped or it refuses to cooperate. Or has to be fed certain kinds of ammo. Or needs an aftermarket, rather than standard issue magazine to work?
If I were dropped out of a chopper and told to assault a village full of insurgents in Afghanistan, I would much rather have an AK in my hands than a US military M-16 variant.
The worst thing that could ever happen to a man would be for his weapon to stop working in a firefight and for the enemy to waltz up to him and blast him full of holes while he lay there helpless. The AK is a superior battle rifle to the AR. Maybe the AR is better at punching holes in paper.
I'll take the AK.
 

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A lot of the issues with the early rifles were related to the wrong powders being used in the issue ammo. They had done the testing and acceptance with a different type, and it got changed after that.
Looks like I parroted what you said. How long did it take for the Gubment to realize the mistake and then how long for it to get rectified? I also recall reading about the almost non-existent training on how to properly break down the rifle and clean it. I honestly remember seeing what amounted to a comic book showing the bare minimum of how to clean the gun.
 

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But who wants a battle rifle that has to have its ass wiped or it refuses to cooperate. Or has to be fed certain kinds of ammo. Or needs an aftermarket, rather than standard issue magazine to work?
If I were dropped out of a chopper and told to assault a village full of insurgents in Afghanistan, I would much rather have an AK in my hands than a US military M-16 variant.
The worst thing that could ever happen to a man would be for his weapon to stop working in a firefight and for the enemy to waltz up to him and blast him full of holes while he lay there helpless. The AK is a superior battle rifle to the AR. Maybe the AR is better at punching holes in paper.
I'll take the AK.
Since we are talking about military operations you have a squad or platoon to back you up, and ordnance from the air via CAS or JTAC's. If my rifle did have a malfunction, I'm pretty good at immediate action drills or blasting bad guys with my M9 or M203 if he was far enough away for the round to arm.

From my experience I have personally fired atleast 50 magazines with out maintenance at the range, I had one malfunction due to a bad g.i. mag.

The M4/M16 family has went through a lot of modifications over the years including ammunition like the MK262 and M855A1. I can't speak for other rifles but I trusted my M4 with my life during my two tours in Iraq.
 
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