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I got a zhukov s stock, magpull foreend, magpul gas tube cover thing, rs regulate bullshit with a primary arms cheapo sight and a j tac comp, im sure people will give me good advice on things to change and id love to hear it. i just like how it looks and feels when shooting currently
 

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Welcome to the group!

Sounds like you built a Non-PlainOldAK. :D :D :D :D

Have a photo or two to share please? Would be nice to see what you are talking about.

And yes there are a lot of AK purists who don't like non-AK stuff on AKs. :D :D
 

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Welcome to the forum, and I'm very fond of the Zhukov stock on my vz52!
 

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I actually like this "niet, the rifle is fine" bullshit and people who get mad when you add something modern to an AK pattern rifle.

These people actually don't see nothing wrong in upgraded M4/16/AR15 pattern rifles or M14 upgraded to EBR style.
The same people don't understand that everything due to the years of service was upgraded and modernized especially on the west (AR) where east (AK) done mostly nothing to upgrade ergonomics and other stuff on their rifles to fit them into the new and modern warfare.

If the rifle is fine so why do you put a red dot/holographs or other optics and lighter grips, fore grips, sport light teiggers to your AR and just don't make them look as closer as early pattern AR15?

Gun is just a tool and you can do with it whatever you want* because you will be using it, no we from the board, some randoms from internet.



*do not apply to the most service rifles if you know what I mean.
 

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I actually like this "niet, the rifle is fine" bullshit and people who get mad when you add something modern to an AK pattern rifle.

These people actually don't see nothing wrong in upgraded M4/16/AR15 pattern rifles or M14 upgraded to EBR style.
The same people don't understand that everything due to the years of service was upgraded and modernized especially on the west (AR) where east (AK) done mostly nothing to upgrade ergonomics and other stuff on their rifles to fit them into the new and modern warfare.

If the rifle is fine so why do you put a red dot/holographs or other optics and lighter grips, fore grips, sport light teiggers to your AR and just don't make them look as closer as early pattern AR15?

Gun is just a tool and you can do with it whatever you want* because you will be using it, no we from the board, some randoms from internet.



*do not apply to the most service rifles if you know what I mean.
I can see where you're coming from as far as updating the platform to enhance performance, but there are a couple of factors that are different between the AR and the AK.

Non-permanent modifications are fine, but people have a bad habit of selling or throwing away the stuff they take off their rifles.. and many parts on the AK are serialized to the gun. If someone puts a railed gas tube on their gun and sells the regular one.. that's a missing piece of the puzzle. A mismatched rifle is also serviceable, but if the rifle in question is say oh I dunno.. a matching PLO gun instead of a WASR.. there's going to be some outrage. Folks are less concerned with newer rifles being altered and some of the parts are actual improvements and some are change for change's sake.. like putting a collapsible AR stock on an AK. It looks weird and if it's flimsy then it detracts from the usefulness of the 'upgrade'. The Saigas that came in were great for tinkering with. As is they could be used in ban states since they didn't have the super deadly pistol grip or threaded barrel, and altering them to look like military rifles actually increased their value.

AKs are also somewhat of a rare species here since imports keep getting banned. People spend a lot of money restoring Chinese rifles to military configuration by tracking down original parts. It's why rifles in original packaging command a premium.. it's collector and historical value over practical. There's also the appeal of how rugged the AK seems since there are still Type 1s being used on an actual battlefield instead of at a range.

The AR on the other hand is so mass produced over here it doesn't even matter what gets put on it can be taken right back off without having to use a 20 ton press or fiddle with rivets. You at best need a vice and a wrench. The only serial number is on the receiver itself, so mixing and matching isn't a big deal. There's no historical aspect other than the people who try to make clones of the early military versions and they spend a lot of money doing the same thing as mentioned above.. tracking down original parts.

It's mostly tongue-in-cheek though. It depends on the circumstances what is done to the AK.
 

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I'm actually talking about original (military) version vs. civilian ones.
Most of the upgrades made to the rifles were made by the military which were provided to AR15/M4/M16 platform and some of them were made on the civilian market where in soviet block such thing hasn't took place in military and especially on civilian market which actually didn't exist during cold war - only some sport (.22 LR) and hunting rifles/shotguns were available for civilians.

I prefer non-permament mods and made only one (Beryl rail mount) to my AKMSN which could be disassembled and only 2 or 3 holes remain in the body/receiver.

Sorry to say that but most of the AK pattern rifles cut into pieces and welded together or on the receiver made in the US cannot be considered as originals - they are and will be only pieces gathered together.
There are original parts but it's not an original rifle.
 

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Human desire seldom follows a logical path.
 

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This is just my opinion, but in addition to the historical aspect and the gratification that builders/collectors get from reuniting the proper parts to a factory configuration, I think there is an intense aesthetic appeal that the AK holds that is really hard to match in other rifles. Combined with the elegant simplicity of its mechanical design there is a sort of union of the beauty of nature and the testament to man’s ingenuity and resourcefulness. In general, wood on guns recalls an old world craftsmanship, but specifically with this rifle it just fits so well. To me it’s kinda like this... RoboCop obviously gets shit done, but James Bond in a tux gets it done in style.
 

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I'm actually talking about original (military) version vs. civilian ones.
Most of the upgrades made to the rifles were made by the military which were provided to AR15/M4/M16 platform and some of them were made on the civilian market where in soviet block such thing hasn't took place in military and especially on civilian market which actually didn't exist during cold war - only some sport (.22 LR) and hunting rifles/shotguns were available for civilians.

I prefer non-permament mods and made only one (Beryl rail mount) to my AKMSN which could be disassembled and only 2 or 3 holes remain in the body/receiver.

Sorry to say that but most of the AK pattern rifles cut into pieces and welded together or on the receiver made in the US cannot be considered as originals - they are and will be only pieces gathered together.
There are original parts but it's not an original rifle.
If you're going to be that specific about totally foreign made 'original' vs parts kit AKs, then you have to disregard the select fire M16 and it's variants too. Ammunition changes and I think the feed ramp on the original vs M4 were the only internal adaptations that I can think of, but admittedly I'm not up on my Stoner lore.

I find it interesting that on one hand you don't mind updates to the AK, but on the other you consider only 100% pure AK an original specimen. While it is true if we get down to it... since we have stupid laws here banning 3rd pin receivers, a kit build is as close as we can come to having a real AK without having to shell out 5 figures for one.. oh and 922r parts because that's part of the scam too. Also there have been 100% Chinese, Romanian, Hungarian, and Yugoslavian come in over the years. We'll have to settle for clones.

Like I said.. there's a difference between practical use and collecting. If it goes bang reliably and reasonably accurately, it wouldn't matter if none of the numbers matched. It wouldn't matter what stuff was added to it and it certainly wouldn't matter if it got beat up through everyday use and handling.
 

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Adding new parts to existing rifles (not only AK pattern) is something normal, especially to the older ones which are still in use (for e.g. military) or they are useful/daily use range guns.

We've got here few oppinions and paths which some of us taken:
- collectors - no matter if they are from USA and they've got parts kits assembled on new receiver according to US laws or from Poland where we can buy orginals converted from full auto (selective fire) to semi auto - thoese people use this guns in their original form, use as more original, number matching parts etc.,
- shooters/users - people who buy cheap (low gun price or low ammo prices) or interesting rifles/guns and want them to be better or more comfortable and they are OK with adding some new accesorries.

The problem is that in a lot of people who owns AK (or not) think that they should be only in their original form but they don't have a problem with modding other guns for e.g. AR15 - look at the first AR15 - why are you've changed front grip, pistol grip and trigger group and it doesn't look like the first one?

Look at this from other point of view - how would an AK will be looked if it would be invented in USA and issued into US military.
After few years I think that a lot of in the original rifle would be changed.

About M16 and M4 and newer versions I'm considering changes in stocks, flash hiders and other parts which made gun more ergonomic.

The good egsample of it is M14 and conversion to M14 EBR where people says "oh you've got an M14 - good", "oh you've put your M14 into EBR suit - nice".

For me funny is that to some species of guns adding new parts is OK but to others is a huge sin which isn't true IMHO.
 

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Adding new parts to existing rifles (not only AK pattern) is something normal, especially to the older ones which are still in use (for e.g. military) or they are useful/daily use range guns.

We've got here few oppinions and paths which some of us taken:
- collectors - no matter if they are from USA and they've got parts kits assembled on new receiver according to US laws or from Poland where we can buy orginals converted from full auto (selective fire) to semi auto - thoese people use this guns in their original form, use as more original, number matching parts etc.,
- shooters/users - people who buy cheap (low gun price or low ammo prices) or interesting rifles/guns and want them to be better or more comfortable and they are OK with adding some new accesorries.

The problem is that in a lot of people who owns AK (or not) think that they should be only in their original form but they don't have a problem with modding other guns for e.g. AR15 - look at the first AR15 - why are you've changed front grip, pistol grip and trigger group and it doesn't look like the first one?

Look at this from other point of view - how would an AK will be looked if it would be invented in USA and issued into US military.
After few years I think that a lot of in the original rifle would be changed.

About M16 and M4 and newer versions I'm considering changes in stocks, flash hiders and other parts which made gun more ergonomic.

The good egsample of it is M14 and conversion to M14 EBR where people says "oh you've got an M14 - good", "oh you've put your M14 into EBR suit - nice".

For me funny is that to some species of guns adding new parts is OK but to others is a huge sin which isn't true IMHO.
I think we're more or less in agreement. Modernizing modern rifles to adapt them to changing battlefields is a natural progression and evolution. A real jump in technology would be electrically fired caseless ammo or even plastic cartridges (can't call it brass, can we?) or even weaponized lasers or man portable rail guns.. but that's an entirely different discussion.

I think where you get the extremely heated arguments is when someone irreversibly changes a historic or rare gun. Once plentiful surplus rifles that were beautiful in their own right were changed into "Deer" rifles.. Christ.. how many thousands of rifles have met Bubba.. who tried to turn a rifle into something it's not? Just buy a damn Savage and get a hunting rifle right out of the box.. but no.. they chop and alter K98s, 30-40 Krags, just about frigging anything with a bolt action.. Slap a scope on it and bayam it's a durr flattenin' huntin' riffle! ...and then they complain about why those cheap rifles aren't cheap anymore. Gosh I wonder if there's a correlation between unmolested examples and a dried up source? Even the humble Mosin Nagants have tripled in price. Leave the things alone man. The SKS is a great example of something getting Tapco-fucked because rails and high capacity magazine.. except by altering its design they make it a jamomatic POS instead of improving it. Adding a shitty scope or laser 'beam' doesn't magically make the SKS more accurate. Then they try to sell it for 3 or 4 times what they have in it. Which is fine. Their property so they can change it however..and businesses thrive on selling products... but when someone tries to pass it off as something it's not, that's a foul.

What I find hilarious in the absurdity of it all is the single and double barrel shotguns with rails all over it. Have you seen those things? Oh man yeah tactical squirrel terminator right there. Add 5 pounds of Chinesium scope, laser, bipod.. I can't believe they left off a muzzle device but it might be hard to pull off with a double barrel. The only thing funnier would be rails on a damn black powder rifle. Tactical muzzle loader. Sell it for 3x the price because muh rails.

It's the destruction of history I have a problem with. Something beautiful was destroyed and it most likely can never be restored. What is it that you value? Do you like classic cars?
 
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