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How do you defend against this?

1464 Views 18 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  j_tudeski
I have noticed what may be a new trend in robberies and attacks. The way we've all been taught that an attack will go down may no longer be the case. In magazine articles, TV shows, and even in Action Pistol events the method used by the "attacker" is usually one of the following, or at least similar. Guy is 3 to 21 feet away threatening you with a knife or gun. He says "give me your wallet or else". That is supposed to be the "typical" scenario for a "street robbery". Or even a guy asks for directions to get close to you at the gas pump and make you think he is ok, then tries to grab you.

The trend I am seeing is different though. One of the first things I have seen to illustrate this trend is the YOUTUBE video where the kid sucker punches the guy at the counter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlP9-8f5YpE
It can be argued in this instance to say that the guy saw the kid and should have moved away, or kept a better eye on him. But he couldn't very well stare at the kid, this could have caused a confrontation. Also, watching him in his peripheral (which is how I probably would have handled it) is fine except when he reaches for his wallet and you jump and try to guard yourself. Then you just look stupid AND could possibly cause a confrontation.

Another situation was one that I heard from a guy that lives in my town. He was in Atlantic City. As he described it, he walked down the ramp from the boardwalk toward his hotel. He heard a voice behind him say "excuse me". As he turned, he was struck in the chest and fell backwards, hitting his head on the concrete. He said he doesn't know if he was punched, kicked or hit with an object, AND he never even saw his attacker. Now as he laid on the sidewalk, slipping in and out of consciousness, he felt two people going through his pockets. They stole his wallet, cell phone and shoes.

Given that I don't know the layout of area he spoke of, nor his level of situational awareness. He had been drinking, but I don't know how drunk he was. So maybe that's the whole problem, and this is nothing. In this situation, I would assume that situational awareness is the key. Chances are, unless he was very visibly drunk, just him noticing the guy may have stopped the attempt and they simply would have waited for an easier target. Or at least gave him an opportunity to defend himself.

In all the "training" that I have had or read, the situational awareness portion pre-conditions "tells" that a person has something bad in their mind. But what about when the first real sign of trouble is the moment the fist is flying? I understand that most of you may say "I'd block it" or "I'd duck."
The problem with that is, you are trying to react to his action, that is already half complete. I don't think anyone is that fast. Martial Artists train to block strikes, but they already know a strike is coming, they just have to figure out what type of strike and where. What if, at a restaurant, you are waiting in the crowded lobby for a table to become available. You are talking to your wife and another name gets called. A group of people get up and the crowd parts just enough for the group to walk through and up to the hostess. As they walk by you, one of them throws a wild punch toward the side of your head. There really isn't much you can do against this. You could argue that people around you, maybe your wife, would not allow him to rob you once you fell. Or even that your wife who carries and is a much better shot than you would shoot him before he even landed the punch. I doubt ANYONE is that fast, except maybe Bob Munden. lol

You might be able to argue that the guy would be acting funny or clenching his fists or something that you might notice ahead of time. But I think that any of that would be a reaction to stress or anxiety over what he is about to do. What if he has already done this 10 times before and is so comfortable with it that he shows no outward signals. Situational awareness can only get you so far, and it's not like you can walk around everywhere with a 6 foot "bubble" of open space and never have anyone walk or stand too close.

What is the defense against this? I certainly can't think of one. But I guess that's the point. It's like the SWAT team that throw flash-bangs after breaching a door. It's all about surprise. Getting the drop on someone that wasn't expecting it. How could you suspect it? I see all sorts of punks that look just like that kid at McDonalds. Most of them are "wish-I-was-a-Thugs" and are no more hardcore than a high school band geek (no offense to the former band geeks out there). You can't be jumpy about everyone that walks past you at the mall.

What are your thoughts?

I am posting this in a couple different forums to get the ideas from more than one "hive", as they call it on ARF.
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When I walk I always watch behind me via windows, car reflections, shadows, sunglasses held to the side, or anything else. I try to maintain a 360 degree awareness at all times. I've found that this alone has put me in the ready quicker and constantly, far before anything else can happen. It give you the opportunity to react before people expect you to even start to process the information. I also don't get drunk in public without a large group. I'm too busy watching everything people do around me if it's just me, a buddy, or a lady friend. If someone is near me, my eyes are on them in some way, even if its just how i position myself.
nobody has ever refuted that my plan is best- 3 uavs following me constantly in rotating overwatch armed with hellfires.

nobody is a superman, you can only minimize the chances of attack by situational awareness, wise choices on where you go and when, and also not looking like an easy (or wealthy) mark. the best way to address the possibility further is to make society itself stronger and not tolerate criminal assault anywhere. Compare London with any city in the US that allows CCW.
I always watch around me, ad try to keep an eye on who. For the hell of it yesterday, I took th city bus across town. That was entertaining trying to keep an eye on people and your surrounding's.
i was a gas station clerk for many years and we were always told to keep plenty of distance between you and the customer, it also helps if you have displays to each side of you, so that the assailant can't get a wide swing at you.

some years back one of our stores was involved in a failed smash and grab. in a store full of customers midday the thief waited for the clerk to open the register and smashed him in the head with a 40 oz bottle of beer. he then grabbed the cash but before he could make it out of the store 6 regular customers who over the years had become friends with the clerk intercepted the man and proceeded to beat the robber till he stopped moving.

police arrived and the robber was rushed to the emergency room were he spent the next 2 weeks in the ICU. the clerk was treated for a concussion and lacerations to his head. not one of the customers was arrested since there was no video evidence showing the man being beat. the thief on the other hand, once fit to stand trail was convicted of attempted murder among many other charges and is now spending the next 10 to 20 in a federal resort.

in 5 years at my store i've been robbed 6 times and on only 2 of those did i actually see a gun and on one i was shot in the right pectoral muscle by a .380 the bullet lodged in a rib breaking it. 3 others were the typical hand in pocket stick em ups, which we give them the money anyways, since its insured and a hell of a lot cheaper that having a shot clerk. in the one time that i've had a strong arm the guy who was in his late 20's discovered that most graveyard clerks are far from helpless. we may be unable to carry a fire arm while on the clock but you will find that most of us carry or have within arms reach of boxcutters, screwdrivers, hammers, and in my case a maglight 4d flashlight. when he tried to come around the counter i proceeded to beat him over the head with it. after 4 swings he found that his fists were no match and wobbled out of the door where he collapsed in the parking lot.

the policed arrived since i hit the alarm and the man a local crack head had several warrants and was treated at the hospital then booked. i received 1 week paid off, till the company investigation was finished. they determined self defense and i came back to work. that maglight is still at that store resting by the counter.

the smash and grab is a very old and common technique among gas stations. it only surprises me that it is only till recently that its becoming more common among muggings.
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Situational awareness and personal distance. You can't watch everybody every second, but do your best to pay attention all around you. Keep personal distance. Obviously you can't do this on a busy subway (or so I am told), but keep at least 3-5 feet between you and others.
Situational awareness and personal distance. You can't watch everybody every second, but do your best to pay attention all around you. Keep personal distance. Obviously you can't do this on a busy subway (or so I am told), but keep at least 3-5 feet between you and others.
Situational awareness and personal distance. You can't watch everybody every second, but do your best to pay attention all around you. Keep personal distance. Obviously you can't do this on a busy subway (or so I am told), but keep at least 3-5 feet between you and others.
On those police video camera tv programs they showed this guy ordering in line at McDonalds or something. Then all of a sudden he turns around and cold cocks the man standing in line behind him and takes the wallet.

In the same show there was this guy at a liquor store who orders a bottle of booze from behind the counter. When the lady hands him the bottle he smashes it on her head.

Sometimes you just can't keep that 10 foot security zone around you at all times.
Grand Prairie, TX. Lived there the last 8 years - things are really going downhill in that area.
First thing, don't eat at MccyD's. This guy had trouble coming from the start.

The next is, don't put you balls up on the counter while you wait. Step back and enjoy some personal space.

Lastly, if someone tries to invade, move accordingly to either get room or prevent their encroachment.

BTW, where were the employees while Mr. Jack move was going through Pop’s pockets? Oh yeah, these are MccyD’s employees.
BTW, where were the employees while Mr. Jack move was going through Pop’s pockets?
I guess they were all in the back making Happy Meals for those too stressed out to help out. :roll:
be aware really, not much you can do sometimes, I got the living shit beaten outta me here in hawaii by 10 guys last christmas, not much i could do since theres no CCW here and im white (racism here is pretty bad). started with the usual "hey, nice jacket" bullshit and when I didn't respond to more oddball questions the whole bar was on me in a split second, even the bouncer was telling me to "apologize"............for what? I'd never even said anything offensive, and when I turned to leave (sober, I was DD) all hell broke loose, Its not a pleasent experience to be clinging to a pool table with one hand while one guy is behind you around your neck dragging you down and nine others are all around trying to get a punch in. my two friends were useless too, they were too shocked to move. luckly I hit the ground right as my friends and the useless bouncer arrived and so I was able to spring up before anybody landed any kicks and caused internal damage. had I lost conciousness I would've been F****D. Didn't get robbed and never bothered with a police report, just keep a better lookout on whats around me.
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my face was so swollen and both eyes had burst blood vessels that I had to have my brother drive me around for a couple weeks while I recovered, couldn't see jack S*** for a while.
Some things there are no protections against. Just hope the odds aren't against you that day.
Everyone look! I found the answer in a fellow forum member's signature line.

It said something to this effect...

"There's no problem an AK can't solve"
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