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978 Posts
Here's some red meat for you guys!!
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Hell yeah, he sounds bitter. What's up with all the emphasis on full auto? 100 round mag? I could be wrong but I heard those beta c mags are total Pieces of Shit. Accessories affect reliability? What? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan direct impingement, but that argument was total b.s.
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512 Posts
I honestly would value his opinion a little more if he knew how to shoot a rifle correctly. :roll:
The comparison part isn't important but the basic argument of the story is: The M16 is really outdated technology. We are living in the 21st century. Our soldiers' rifles should be better than they are, and they should be the best in the entire world. That may be an unrealistic request today, but it's something we should be working towards.
The comparison part isn't important but the basic argument of the story is: The M16 is really outdated technology. We are living in the 21st century. Our soldiers' rifles should be better than they are, and they should be the best in the entire world. That may be an unrealistic request today, but it's something we should be working towards.
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2,028 Posts
That video is pure sillyness.
Have you ever dropped a loaded Beta C mag from table hieght? ....
Have you ever dropped a loaded Beta C mag from table hieght? ....
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4,766 Posts
That guy must have lost all respect in the gun community after that video went public! :lol:
T
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4,137 Posts
Not too long ago Small Arms Review published an extensive multi-issue interview with Sullivan. He was quite a bit more "together" than the video interview, usually news pieces are hacked together.
Under the governments direction and without the supervision of Stoner, the AR15 program fell into disrepair until cost cutting and mismanagement started killing our guys. Somehow I don't think the M4 carbine will rank among the best rifles this country has ever fielded.
Under the governments direction and without the supervision of Stoner, the AR15 program fell into disrepair until cost cutting and mismanagement started killing our guys. Somehow I don't think the M4 carbine will rank among the best rifles this country has ever fielded.
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2,509 Posts
Well here is what happened to me. Here is how far the beta fell onto a shag carpet off of the storage container. It was loaded with 556 ready to go an get blasted out of a posty M16. Shame it was a preban and I paid over $400 for this back during the ban. I still have it in a box I just have not sent it along with the $75 back to beta co to get it fixed.bthorn said:
ENJOY!!!
they are cool but pricey and akick in the ass when firing a full auto.
would I trust my life to one? ERR maybe not.
Granted I have 5 AR uppers sitting in a locker too.
but I have not built them back up after selling off the preban lowers.
But for the 556 cal rifles I like this better.
and Im building one of these for everyday blasting and perhaps 3 gun.
I know I will have multiple ARs in the future and loved the ones that uncle sugar let me play with but they are just not my thing.
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1,327 Posts
Yeah. He's bitter.
Pretty much nobody liked the Ultimax and the Beta Mag is too fragile, heavy and bulky for most combat use.
From what I understand, the US military procurement process is a dog-eat-dog...straight razor...type deal.
The people entrenched there don't want anyone messing up their world or getting any of what they think
are 'their' goodies (money).
I understand that Stoner sold out to Colt with the M16 because Stoner just could not get through the entrenched
'Old Boys' network.
Colt, of course, was part of the 'Old Boys' network and even Colt had a hard time of it.
Pretty much nobody liked the Ultimax and the Beta Mag is too fragile, heavy and bulky for most combat use.
From what I understand, the US military procurement process is a dog-eat-dog...straight razor...type deal.
The people entrenched there don't want anyone messing up their world or getting any of what they think
are 'their' goodies (money).
I understand that Stoner sold out to Colt with the M16 because Stoner just could not get through the entrenched
'Old Boys' network.
Colt, of course, was part of the 'Old Boys' network and even Colt had a hard time of it.
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26,087 Posts
Both rifles have their strengths and weaknesses. I like the AK, and its simple ruggedness, but the ergonomics are not as good as an M16 series rifle. Accuracy is not as good with an AK either.
While I would not feel outgunned with a good working AK, given the choice in combat, I would still choose the 16 because I"ve got alot more trigger time with it.
While I would not feel outgunned with a good working AK, given the choice in combat, I would still choose the 16 because I"ve got alot more trigger time with it.
He seems to forget that M16s aren't full auto any more just 3 round burst and semi auto. Full auto from the hip isn't always as effective as his claims. Also his C-mags aren't very good so this news report needs to get its fact straight next time. I do believe there are better rifles then the M16 old and new, it's kind of sad the US has fell behind. Also how do rifle attachments make the gun jam more? Unless it interferes with the moving the moving parts, bs I tell you.
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1,327 Posts
I haven't seen anything out there that would represent a 'quantum leap' in assault rifle technology that would really give much of an increase in effectiveness over the M16.
Nothing that would justify the enormous costs of tooling up and re-equipping the entire US military.
Plus, when the US changes, you know a whole lot of others will change too.
So...it's gotta be a big change with real benefits for the cost of such an huge undertaking.
The fact that the M16 was in it's early design stages 50 years ago doesn't mean anything.
The same with the AK. (Except for a few add-on doo dads and caliber change, the benefit of which is disputed by many, it's 'the same'.)
There simply has not been anything sufficiently better to come along...yet.
Nothing that would justify the enormous costs of tooling up and re-equipping the entire US military.
Plus, when the US changes, you know a whole lot of others will change too.
So...it's gotta be a big change with real benefits for the cost of such an huge undertaking.
The fact that the M16 was in it's early design stages 50 years ago doesn't mean anything.
The same with the AK. (Except for a few add-on doo dads and caliber change, the benefit of which is disputed by many, it's 'the same'.)
There simply has not been anything sufficiently better to come along...yet.
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2,370 Posts
Hey Hiros what is the scope mount on that last rifle in your post? I NEEDS me one of them!!!!
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2,509 Posts
that "supposedly" is a variation of the mounts that radom uses on versions of the Beryl. I have never seen one on the various Beryls I have seen in Poland or seen on the net . But that is internet hersey.Tx Dogblaster said:
so I have no clue.
it looks like it attaches to the RSB with 2 pins.
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8,916 Posts
+1 He fired both like some old geezer out at the range for his first time.Exothermia said:
More media crap....
Greetings,
Back in the mid 70's,my first MOS was 76Y,unit small arms repair and supplyman.My Guard unit had M16A1's made by H&R.When I went to FT LEE,they told us,"EASY ON THE LUBE".So,when we went to the range,we occasionally had FTE's.So,being a somewhat belligerent troop,I tried lubing the hell out the rifle's that didn't extract.Guess what?No more problems!
Now today,I understand the grunts are taught proper maintanance,as well as given lots of lube and problems have subsided.This doesn't mean the Army shouldn't look at a new rifle,but good training with your rifle and good unit level maintainance will help a lot.Start replacing the mags when they get beat up.Simple stuff like that.It's not as sexy as a Aircraft Carrier or an F22,but Grunts win wars,give them the tools!
Regards,
dat85
Greetings,
Back in the mid 70's,my first MOS was 76Y,unit small arms repair and supplyman.My Guard unit had M16A1's made by H&R.When I went to FT LEE,they told us,"EASY ON THE LUBE".So,when we went to the range,we occasionally had FTE's.So,being a somewhat belligerent troop,I tried lubing the hell out the rifle's that didn't extract.Guess what?No more problems!
Now today,I understand the grunts are taught proper maintanance,as well as given lots of lube and problems have subsided.This doesn't mean the Army shouldn't look at a new rifle,but good training with your rifle and good unit level maintainance will help a lot.Start replacing the mags when they get beat up.Simple stuff like that.It's not as sexy as a Aircraft Carrier or an F22,but Grunts win wars,give them the tools!
Regards,
dat85
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2,374 Posts
going to a 16" with a mid length gas system would probably be a good idea...Ermac said:
though honestly, inside 300 yards, the 14.5" barrel gets you over 2500 fps or whatever the min. fragment speed for 5.56 is thought to be i believe.
i actually dig the 5.56 round. it has hit potential out to 600 yards (hits are better than no hits) and in CQB it fragments like crazy, and has low recoil for easy followup shots.
also it's light to carry.
retooling everything for 6.8 or whatever seems like a waste. give the guys better body armor and better vehicles for example.
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