AK Rifles banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,437 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,


I am doing some work on my Honda (changed oil and filter, replaced a bad light, etc) and decided to get the AC running again too. 1997 Honda Accord LX, sedan, 2.2L.


Problem: The AC was at 0 PSI, I've used one can of R-134a and the can still has a lot of pressure in it even though the system is up to 25 PSI. It feels like the can is still under very high pressure, hell, may have built up more pressure. Is this normal? I know it can happen if you connect the unit to the high pressure port but the kit I bought won't even let the recharge valve fit on the high pressure port (I tried both ports to be sure, it only fits on one).


Is this normal? If so, how do I tell when the R-134 can is actually empty? Oh and yes the engine is running with AC on max.




ETA: Called the sis, all is well. Chalk that up to the newbie trying something new board. :oops:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,121 Posts
the low pressure switch is keeping the compressor from kicking in.
Look on the lines or dryer for a sending unit switch with 2 wires unplug it and jump across it with apaper clip. That car should hold 1.3 or 1.4 pounds.

You really need to have someone pull a vacum on it.

if you cant find it or have questions pm me pics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
556 Posts
Start the car up, turn on the ac so that the low side pressure drops. This will draw some of the juice out of the can. You can also heat the can up a bit with a heat gun, or by placing it on the radiator or exhaust manifold.

Contrary to what many think is safe, I always charge with the can upside down. Right side up is technically correct, but it takes forever. You probably shoud of vacuumed the system down first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,437 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I probably should have had the vaccume done on it. I called one of my friends who has a shop, maybe I'll just ask for some help.

It reads 25 PSI now, and the AC works a little (blows cold air) but not up to where it used to be. It would probably need at least another can. Vaccuming the system now would take out all that is already in it, right? So I may need to pick up another can of R-134a.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
Hooking up to the high side and the car running is not a good idea. It will pressurize the can and it could blow up. Connect to the low side (small valve) and start the car. As the freon starts to fill the ac system the compressor should kick in and then suck the gas from the can. You should need two cans. You don't NEED to pull vacum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,915 Posts
It really does need a vacuum pulled on it along with a leak check and the proper amount of PAG oil put back into the system.
Since the system was allowed to be depleted to 0 PSI it needs servicing at a shop.
My two cents worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
If you have your friend do a system vac. have him do a dye test first to find out where all the original refridgerant went in the first place. If you have a bad seal at a junction in the lines it will have to be replaced or the system will just vent the new stuff to outside via the damaged seal.

An easy way to check this is to look at all the connections on the lines and see if there is a thin film of oil (it usually attracts dust like crazy) at the connection, if so it's likely oil from the compressor and a good indicator of a bad seal. (no you don't add oil to the compressor it has some from the factory when it was assembled).

Many moons ago I worked in an autobody shop and we had a guy come in to recharge A/C systems after everything was done on the bodywork.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,915 Posts
I agree with checking to see where the R134 all went and seeing the oily dirty residue usually indicates where the leak in the ac system was.
If the ac system doesn't have the proper amount of oil put back in the system the compressor's service life will be greatly shortened.
After all the residue is oily because oil has escaped.

This is how we service the environmental system on the the Hawker Beech airplanes where I work.
We've had temps of over 106 in the last ten days here in Oklahoma so I'm pretty current on repairing/servicing them.
If you take it to a shop with a machine and ASE trained guys it will be done right.
My 0.04 worth. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,121 Posts
On most imports its the O rings that allows leaks. The first one I would check is the one on the bottom of the condenser (behind the bumper) easiest to get to it from below. I would remove the hoses and replace all the orings and go from there . Also look for oil on the lines. Most of the time its a O ring seal. Use AC O rings usually green and ones for R134.

You will need to put a little pag oil (ac oil) on the O rings when you reinstall the lines.

You can do this yourself all you need is a 10mm wrench.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Contrary to what many think is safe, I always charge with the can upside down. Right side up is technically correct, but it takes forever.
You can get lucky and have this work, but I killed the compressor on an El Camino I used to own doing that. If the lines are fairly cool and you charge upside down with the compressor running, you will pull liquid refrigerant into the compressor cylinders and try to compress it. That works about as well as pouring a 5-gallon bucket of water into the intake of a running engine (goodbye, rings and rods).

Charging an R-134a system from just a can can be a slow process, and once the can cools a bit and pressures drop, you may have to heat the can a little (a bowl of warm water works pretty well).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,437 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
kykartracer said:
Hooking up to the high side and the car running is not a good idea. It will pressurize the can and it could blow up. Connect to the low side (small valve) and start the car. As the freon starts to fill the ac system the compressor should kick in and then suck the gas from the can. You should need two cans. You don't NEED to pull vacum.
I'm not using Freon... R-12= Freon, this is R-134a. I know to not do that, I just said in my post that the can didn't seem to be losing pressure and I knew it could happen by using the wrong valve but I wasn't. Removing that option from the list for the guys with more experience.

The car is a 97 that has never had the AC recharged. I assume that whatever it is was a slow leak. Where do I pick up those rings at? I guess Advanced Auto has them and I just ask them for the part #? Also I got R-134a with oil. I do not know if there is a non-oil version as I figure all types have it since it also works as a lube for the compressor but you never know.

Ugh... I need AC by tomorrow... shoulda started this earlier. :doh:


Will, have you done this to a Honda Accord before? I only ask because different cars have different specs and I wanted to know if you could give me more specific info (just replace the seal that is right behind the bumper, or do more, or what).


No soapy foam or oil deposits anywhere on the lines that I could see, but then again its been dry a long time. The lines look to be in good condition themselves and I felt along the easily accessible connections about an hour after refilling and didn't feel any soapy/oily buildup so I guess the seals near the actual compressor and the accumulator are the ones in suspect... or its a slow leak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,573 Posts
r134 is cheap.
buy another can.
Get the low pressure to around 30 to 35 and see how it cools.

You already got 1 can in it so might as well put a second and see what happens.

If it leaks down then go ahead and break down and spend some money
Purchase a Dryer ($30) and a expansion valve ($35)
Do a leak check, fix leaks, pull a vacuum and recharge.
Yeah, I know $70 in parts..
You don't have to replace them but I was always told to do that if the system was open for a while......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,121 Posts
I have been in a bodyshop since 1986. Im the Ac guy at the shop .
I did a Toyota and malibu today. Its been 107+ here so I have been busy. Today it was 103 and raining .... :sad: can you say sticky?

Truthfully ,if you have a buddy let him pull it down and replace the O rings and charge it. If its over charger it will not work very good and freeze up. since you put 134 in it it will have to be drawn back down to replace the o rings.

you see the square blocks that connect the lines to the condenser? They will have gold colored 10mm bolts. The O rings are on the male side of the block the line side. Any auto parts should have a O ring kit for your car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,437 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
will36 said:
I have been in a bodyshop since 1986. Im the Ac guy at the shop .
I did a Toyota and malibu today. Its been 107+ here so I have been busy. Today it was 103 and raining .... :sad: can you say sticky?

Truthfully ,if you have a buddy let him pull it down and replace the O rings and charge it. If its over charger it will not work very good and freeze up. since you put 134 in it it will have to be drawn back down to replace the o rings.

you see the square blocks that connect the lines to the condenser? They will have gold colored 10mm bolts. The O rings are on the male side of the block the line side. Any auto parts should have a O ring kit for your car.
Alright...


Its his dad actually, he charges the AC on the family cars and he runs an engine shop and he offered to help. I need to ask if he has the vacuum to do it (hopefully he does). So, go to AA and get a O-ring kit, install the two O-rings near the blocks with oil (is it included with the rings or do I buy it separately, and if it is separate, what brand/type is best) and then put it together and have it vacuumed to a lower pressure. Then use the R-134 I already have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,121 Posts
Yeah thats about it. Ask if he has pag oil or ac oil. You dont want to buy that just for the amount you will need. It needs a good 15mins vacum and turn it off and make sure it holds a vacum for about 10 mins. if so your good and charge it. If not you still have a leak. Look on your Ac dryer or on the bottom of the hood for a yellow AC sticker. It will have how much 134 + or - It should be 1.3 or 1.4 lbs. in a honda. Check to be sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
556 Posts
Replacing O rings at random will doubtfully fix your problem. Yes, O rings can, and do leak, but there is no sense in wasting the can you already put in it just to fix something that might not be broken.

Get another can (with dye, in case there is none in the system already), and add it. If your unsure of the systems capacity, there is a label under the hood that tells you how much it holds.

I have been ASE certified, and working in the car buisness for over 15 years. Its been over 100 degrees here in Texas, so I have been quite busy working on AC lately. Based on my experiance, most cars only have slow leaks that are not worth fixing if you can recharge the system yourself. A can or two a year will keep them blowing cold. If it leaks out faster than that, then look for the dye at all the hoses, fittings, junctions, compressor, and evaporator. Dont put too much oil in it, or you will reduce the efficency of the system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,437 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Question:


I did not vacuum check it yet. But I took it out for a drive. The air is pretty cold, but when I take turns and sometimes at other times I hear a soft noise that sounds like you just put a CD in a CD player... the scratchy sound, like a CD turning at a high rate. It comes from the right side of the engine area and I assume is related to the AC as that is the only change in the car.

Could it simply be because the AC system still has air in it and isn't fully charged? Or something else?
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top