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Discussion Starter #1
I have a Safafi safe that has the dimensions of 30" x 60" x 24". I have a liter (700g) can of desiccant made by HySkore it came with a little paper humidity reader (hygrometer?) It indicates that the humidity inside the safe is 30%. Additionally I have three packs of "Engelhard Desiccite 25" (mil spec disiccant in white paper pouches) None of the desiccant has changed color to indicate that I need to put it in the oven. Is this high in humidity inside my safe? keep in mind that I'm in Biloxi and the humidity about 100% you're swimming as soon as you walk out the front door. The reason why i ask is that I noticed some surface rust inside my Vector Polish UF (I believe that I have read that I am not the only person who has noticed rust inside their vectors on an armory rec) This is the only gun in the safe that has the rust.
Is 30% humidity high for a safe?
Also are the little humidity reader a one time use or will it vary. Right now I have it outside to see if it will change.

--------update-------

The humidity reader will change after about 5 min of being outside it is at 60% (as high as it reads) now to see if it will go back down
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: safe

george ries said:
i use a golden rod in my safe and oil down my guns every so often and have never had any rust :dance:
I have thought about the rod but I believe that the hole is under the safe (not sure) but I would have to unbolt the safe from the floor. My vector is the only gun that has the surface rust. I have a 1898 Krag-jorgensen made in 1899 that looks fine for being over 100 years old and it has no rust along with my remaining guns--no rust.

I'm just wondering if 30% humidity is high
 

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deaconblue said:
Is 30% humidity high for a safe?
I had the same question and did some research but couldn't find anything definitive. Most recommendations I saw said somewhere around 40% is best. If it is too high you get rust but if it is too low, wood stocks can crack.

I know what you mean about the card. I have the same one but found it's measuring abilities to be a little fuzzy. I got a cheap hygrometer at Ace Hardware and keep that in the safe all the time. When I open the door I look at it quick before the outside humidity takes affect. With a Goldenrod and big can of silica it's usually around 38-45% so I figure I'm ok. I do keep a coat of Breakfree CLP on my firearms and replenish every few months. No problems so far.
 

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Ever since I got my safe, I, too, have been searching for information about proper humidity levels, but have come up short. I purchased a little digital hygrometer at Wal-Mart a while back and put it in my safe. It runs off of watch batteries and shows the temperature and humidity. It was about $8, I think. I have a large safe (it's supposed to be a 51 gun but I have more than that in it) and I keep a dehumidifier running about 3 feet away from the door of my safe (I bought the biggest one Lowe's sells). My humidity readings stay near 50% in the summer and around 40% in the winter. I do not have any rust issues. No matter what I do, I cannot get any lower readings than those listed above in the corresponding season. I have even added more dessicant inside the safe and the readings stay the same. The air in the safe will inevitably stay the same as the humidity outside the safe no matter what you do. If you're down to 30% with no problems, then that's great. You should be fine.
 

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Relative humidity is a function of Temperature, along with pressure.
(I will leave out the pressure parts because it is negligible for this purpose)

Basically, the warmer the air is, the more moisture (Water Vapor)
can hold at a given temperature.
Relative humidity is a ratio of how much water vapor the
air can hold at its current temp, v.s. how much it actually has in it.
As the air in your safe gets warmer, there is more space between the
molecules for water vapor. Desicants work to absorb the water vapor
in your safe and keep it dry.
A golden rod type dehumidifier is just a heater.
It boosts the temp in the safe slightly to expand the air in the safe,
thus lowering the relative humidity relative to the air around the safe.
Assuming an ambient temp of 72 deg in
your safe and a Relative humidity of 30% ( that is the air, at that given
temperature is holding aprox 30% of what it can hold at that temp)
you would have a dew point of 39 deg F. 72/39 is pretty dry, considering
that the dew point in your house is 57 deg F. The air in your safe is holding
~1/3 less water vapor than the air in your house is.
Your guns will be fine at 30% Relative Humidity.

KyAKGuy
 

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I should get a hygrometer.

The humidity outdoors in my town is 9% right now, per the NWS
 

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I live in coastal Alaska where the humidity levels are pretty high.
I have Goldenrods and VCI strips in my safes. Never have had a speck of rust. Less than 50% relative humidity and you shouldn`t have any rust problems.
 

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:grin: : 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 7
Location: minneapolis
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: Here is how!

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I am on the board of a large museum, and work with the conservators from time to time. We have a collection of Armor and some swords and matchlocks. Talking to other Museums, we have determined the Ideal humidity is 50% at 75 deg. any lower humidity, wood gets too dry and cracks. The leather connecting straps on armor will dry up and "flake apart if it is any dryer. For long term storage we use high quality past wax apply to all steel parts buff with a cloth LIGHTLY! And least of all we do not examine arms bare handed. Use cotton gloves, handle only the wood. Your hand and fingerprints are highly acidic. I use these methods and have had very good luck. At home I run a de-humidifier, constantly and this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
KyAKGuy said:
Relative humidity is a function of Temperature, along with pressure.
(I will leave out the pressure parts because it is negligible for this purpose)

Basically, the warmer the air is, the more moisture (Water Vapor)
can hold at a given temperature.
Relative humidity is a ratio of how much water vapor the
air can hold at its current temp, v.s. how much it actually has in it.
As the air in your safe gets warmer, there is more space between the
molecules for water vapor. Desicants work to absorb the water vapor
in your safe and keep it dry.
A golden rod type dehumidifier is just a heater.
It boosts the temp in the safe slightly to expand the air in the safe,
thus lowering the relative humidity relative to the air around the safe.
Assuming an ambient temp of 72 deg in
your safe and a Relative humidity of 30% ( that is the air, at that given
temperature is holding aprox 30% of what it can hold at that temp)
you would have a dew point of 39 deg F. 72/39 is pretty dry, considering
that the dew point in your house is 57 deg F. The air in your safe is holding
~1/3 less water vapor than the air in your house is.
Your guns will be fine at 30% Relative Humidity.

KyAKGuy
Thanks that is very detailed info
 

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:grin: vz58kid



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 221

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject:

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Gentlemen, first let me say thanks for all youre valuable comments.
i have only had my comp. for 4 months now and just have a lot of questions about a lot of things, and had not bought any new guns in the
last 6 yrs. except in the last yr. have bought 15 new guns and unfortunately about 6 of those had recalls and other problems and some still do, which i did not know about till after i got them!
after doing a bunch of checking, worrying and calling the co. i am glad to say that all of mine were not affected! and i just bought the safe 6 months ago mainly to protect my guns from rust!
i used to keep them all in sock-ups with a pouch of desiccant and well oiled and then in airtight bags and that has worked fine, but really was a pain in the neck! and i never will forget about a yr. ago went to range with my girlfriend and had a rom. ak and a couple of mil-surp pistols laying on table and while i was at the other end of the 100 yard range changing targets, it rained and all my guns got wet, since girlfriend was more worried about getting her hair wet then the guns!
well even though i covered the guns and wiped dry when 8 hrs. later to clean i was shocked the rom. ak had light surface rust all over as well as 2 of my milsurp pistols even though they had been oiled before shoot. etc.. i was able to wipe all clean with grease and oil, but something like this in 8 hrs?
i live in 2 story house, downstairs have 2 huge rooms and my safe! always in summer keep AC at 75 deg. but downstairs do run a de-hum. which does on many days collect 4-5 gallons in it but it does keep hum.
in those rooms about 8 deg. lower than upstairs! 65 comp. to 72 on avg.
it is just in the safe it always shows (at least right now) 80 temp. and 58 hum. and my golden rod is a large one and will cover 3x the square foot. of my safe!
on my hum. gauge it shows normal rang is 50-75, but on hum. indicator cards it shows danger level at 30-40% and since my safe is a fire res. type it is pretty air tight!
and like i had stated earlier in a similar post somewhere else i read that
most people kept their hum. levels at 40-50%. so hopefully i will be fine
and i will see what the levels will be in fall and winter!
thank you all again!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As mentioned earlier it is only one gun that is rusting and it is only surface rust. It is my Vector Polish UF on an Armory rec. I seem to recall that someone else had this issue. Does anyone recall this or have a vector on an armory rec that has rust. The rust is inside around the rails
 

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I searched (Mods: should I start a new thread) to try and find if anyone else has surface rust on an armory rec. I know that I read it before or i'm just going crazy. But has anyone elses armory rec not neccessatily a vector build have rust in the interior. I will post pics when I get a chance. At the moment I do not believe that it is an issue a just remove it with CLP and a brush but it continues to accumulate so eventually it will become a problem right? I believe that we have came to the conclusion that the humidity in the safe is not the culprit because all my other guns do not have any rust
 

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From all you have told, i dont believe it is your safe, but poor finish on gun, a lot of rom. aks have the same prob. took 1, out shooting, got a few drops of rain on it which was wiped off asap, but 6 hrs later started around rails to rust. Have read the same problem with an author taking a rom. out into snow etcc. reall quick rust. If your entire gun does not need a park. job. I would recommend putting a heavy duty grease on all areas or just where needed! I always use OUTERS CHOKE & GUN LUBE grease on all of mine. really heavy duty stuff!
I bought a safe 8 months ago and have a large golden-rod which covers
3x the cubic footage as mine, but i cant get Hum. lower than 68 with temp in safe at 72, it is bas. air-tight,fire-proof!
Listed questions on 4 boards and most people say 50-75 hum. is normal!
I would however rec. once that problem gun is lubed, to also keep it in a
Gun-Sack, they work great on preventing rust.
Hell, before i got safe, that was how i stored my guns, some for 4-5 yrs. before cleaning and oiling them with no problems.
We also have crazy very high humidity in my neck of woods!
Best of luck. :dance:
 

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Something interesting, just bought at Wallie world an indoor dig. therm with a hygrometer was around $6.70 and is only 2x3" big! as soon as i put 1 AAA in it it showed the room temp at 76 and the hum. at 52%.
Where my $2. wall therm. showed also 76 tem. but 66% hum???
About 15% differ. so i put both in safe and closed it.
2 hrs. later checked both, my new little toy showed temp. at 80 and Hum.
at 48%, while my other unit said 80 temp. but hum. at 63%!
So all this time my hum. is 15% lower at min. that i had thought!

Thanks to all, and especially NEALBEDWELL!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
vz58kid said:
Something interesting, just bought at Wallie world an indoor dig. therm with a hygrometer was around $6.70 and is only 2x3" big! as soon as i put 1 AAA in it it showed the room temp at 76 and the hum. at 52%.
Where my $2. wall therm. showed also 76 tem. but 66% hum???
About 15% differ. so i put both in safe and closed it.
2 hrs. later checked both, my new little toy showed temp. at 80 and Hum.
at 48%, while my other unit said 80 temp. but hum. at 63%!
So all this time my hum. is 15% lower at min. that i had thought!

Thanks to all, and especially NEALBEDWELL!
Where in WallyHell did you find it at? Gardening? Home Improvement section?

And I agree that it is the gun I am still searching and I will find were someone else had a similar area of rust

Thanks all
 

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Right on the wall in the section where the thermometers are, just before
you go out to the gardening section, but there in different locations at all of them! Just ask in the home impr. section where you can find a thermometer, and please get a gun-sock!
I really would not worry to much about the gun as long you keep it clean
and lubed! One of mine did that also but only 1 time due to a slight sprinkle! It is something either in the finish or lack of it, or possible
something in the metal, you could have it refinished $150.-200. But if it dont need that, you could maybe spray clear rust stopper on the rails,where i thought you said it was, just clean area really good the spray and let dry and then a thick lube! Ball bearing grease would be good on rails is cheap and very thick! :hail:
 

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* Pre-2006 versions of the XD were protected with a metal treatment called Burinal™. Some who own pistols with the Burinal™ treatment have reported significant rust problems - especially those who carry the XD against their skin. Fortunately, current versions of the XD are being manufactured the Melonite™ brand of Carbonitriding, which is the same process as the Tenifer™ coating used on Glocks.

That is no longer much of an issue. No new XD pistols will be delivered with the old finish, and 80% of these guns hitting the secondary market have the new finish. The ones that have the old finish often sell at a discount. (That, BTW, is a good bargaining strategy.) If you do buy one with the discontinued porous Burinal finish, you can send it off to Arizona Response Systems, The Robar Company, or Century Gun Works for coating in an exotic, rust-resistant finish.
All Saigas also have severe problem with rust to poor finish!

MAYBE THE ABOVE WILL GIVE SOME INSIGHT! IT DOES SEEM ARMORY CUT A CORNER OR 2 IN THE FINISHING PROCESS! And i had always thought highly of Springield Arm!
 
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