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Discussion Starter #1
Not an AK but I value the thinking here!

I am itching for a new 308 in the $1,000 range and have honed the list to a (1) DPMS LR 308 Classic with 20" barrel and a railed handguard or an AP4 16" carbine with a ff tube, or (2) PTR 91 16" carbine.

1. DPMS - AR platform is super accurate and easy to scope.
2. DMPS - mags run about $30 each and I'd need to pick up at least 5 extra on top of the 2 that are included to feel comfortable so +$150.
3. DMPS ergos are excellent.
4. DPMS - not crazy about their 5.56 products but the 308 offerings seem to be pretty robust and reliable after an initial break-in period.

1. HK 91 rifles are crazy reliable and robust.
2. HK 91 ergos are marginal but I absolutely love the collapsing stock and have an extra on hand.
3. HK 91 - I have an extra wide forearm and bipod off of an 93 that would fit the 16" carbine perfectly.
4. Mags are cheaper than a gallon of gas and I have a small box full siting in the attic.

I think both platforms are screaming bargains right now in the $900 to $1,100 range - but I can only get one.

What say the hive?

(PS. Please don't say FAL Para for as bit more $$$ and mess up my thinking!)
 

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:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Well, I think you've sat down and honestly thought about them and come to some decent conclusions (except for the G3 retractable stock..... :oops: ).

Between the two.....I might acually give the DPMS a try. As you said, the .223 rifles really have some fleas, but the .308's have been doing well, although I don't know how many people have run them hard.

You can get a DSA StG-58 Standard or Carbine for less than $1250.00.
 

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I know some people have stayed away from the HK due to creases in the cases? making the brass un-re-loadable.. not sure if this is an issue, I have been told its something to do with the fluted chamber. This is totally 2nd or 3rd hand info and could be wrong.. Just what I Have heard
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Templar just HAD to break out the STG!

I have a DSA 16" STG 58 FAL carbine and a 16" PTR already. Love both!

The PTR and DPMS are just such good bargains right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With the price of surplus 308 and even reloading right now - brass is the least of my concern!

I like 308 in carbine length unless I can quality mount good glass. I can"t hit jack with irons at 500 yards with these eyes.

Now I'm thinking DSA STG 18" Para for $1,400ish damnit!
 

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ar10 if you want accuracy

fal if you want coolness and reliability, i nvr been very impressed with fal accuracy. I hate how FAL vents gas under the handguard...there are hole's in the gas tube of everyone i ever saw, pain in the ass if u want it clean..one reason i sold mine.

ptr 91 sounds the coolest to me...
 

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L1a1's/Fals are easy to scope too. Just replace the topcover :) . But I would also probably lean towards the .308 ar just because I do not like the ergonomics of hk91 and I dunno why but I always end up with a sore jaw when I shoot one.

Templar: isn't that first one a south african kit?
 

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Dirtyrice, that's my DSA StG-58 Standard that I put an unissued G1/FN walnut buttstock on and some non bipod cut handguards from SA/Rhodesia that JohnO scored for me.

I've got the R1 gas plug around here somewhere......
 

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Depends.

My DPMS A3 can shoot crazy small groups:

Downside is it's freakin heavy, brother. I wanted a DMR to replace the G3 S/G1:

'cause I sold it. Why? Well...
Besides the crappy ergos, and the PITA scope mounting options, the G3 and PTR come with a 1:12 18" barrel. That barrel is extremely limiting, with respect to a DMR. On top of that, I never have seen (SEEN, not read about on the interweb) a G3 or PTR shoot better than 2MOA. Now, if you want a door kicker and don't plan on shooting anything reliably outside of 500M than the G3 is ok. BUT, my choice is:

The FAL has an adjustable gas system, is lighter and has FAR better ergos. In a doorkicker, ergos win; the ability to quickly reload, to execute follow-up shots, etc. is not something to disregard. The FAL has a relieved magwell, index-finger-operated (within actual reach of normal humans) mag release and drop-free mags to speed mag changes, a big dumb knob of a charging handle, and an easily actuated (within reach of actual human thumbs) safety. The G3 is ... mediocre. Looks nice though. My doorkicker G3s looked like this:


If I was on a budget I'd get a Saiga 308 and convert that; I'd much rather have a Russian RPK with a chrome-lined hammer-forged barrel than a PTR with it's soft button-rifled unlined heavy half-assed "target" tube. WHATEVER you do, don't use that crap barrel...

I may buy another DPMS with a doorkicker configuration (18"LW/telestock/rail) as the performance of my DPMS has been OUTSTANDING.

IMHO, YMMV, etc...
 

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ID GO FOR THE AR-10.

I own a dsa fal, a dpms ar-10b, and have shot the hk ptr-91.

the one that wins is the ar-10,

easier to find parts, easier to scope, recoil is very light, easy to clean, it has the best ergonomics sub-moa accuracy.

with lithuanian surplus i shoot 1-1.5" groups at 100 yards with the ar-10

im trying out the 168 grain and the 175 grain loads very shortly.

dont get into the chorme and mil spec bull that argue the most finite points.

the dpms works and works great. ive put close to a thousand rounds through mine and it never fails. i would suggest using grease on the bolt carrier though. i like using wheel bearing grease it helps the action a lot.

south african shoots okay groups.
indian ammo shoots 4" plus groups dont waste your time with this ammo.
lithuanian shoots the best so far. 1-1.5" groups
mine has a 1-10 twist so imtrying out the 168 and the 175 next
 

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The PTR-91 looks cool but just feels akward in my hands. The DPMS feels much better. I say DPMS or maybe the RRA LAR-8 .308 rifle.
:mrgreen:
 

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Get an M1A..
 

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What is the purpose of the rifle?
To have and hold, to stare at on lonely nights?
To wow your friends?
to hunt?
to target shoot?
to plink?

I always look at the purpose of the weapon then work from there.
 

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If you want ACCURACY?


Sorry guys... but I have to recommend the AR-10 or the M-1A.
 

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the .308's I have kept
HK91
PTR91k soon to be a G3k
STG58 on imbel rec
16" STG58 on imbel rec
 
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