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Discussion Starter #1
My pops has a reciever that is a romanian 5.45, SAR 2 ,side folder, It was originally on an imported gun, its has the importers engraving on the side.


My question is this...........Can I build a rifle out of it,with out dealing with the compliance parts,since it was an imported rifle to begin with?

In other words, since its a romanian imported reciever,with all the importers details on the side, then I should be able to use all imported parts, and who would know the difference??


also, whats the details on just selling an imported reciever by itself?
 

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If you change the condition it was imported in, you have to conform to the 922r laws.

In the USA, the receiver is legally considered the firearm. All prevailing laws must be followed when selling firearms.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks Nalioth,


So given here in michigan you can sell a semiauto rifle from person to person without any paper work, then I should be able to do a face to face with someone with out any paper work,right?


also I would like to ask you some more questions if you dont mind........


Does this reciever have any more value since it was a factory built imported reciever? whats it worth by itself?
 

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command450 said:
So given here in michigan you can sell a semiauto rifle from person to person without any paper work, then I should be able to do a face to face with someone with out any paper work,right?
I don't live in Michigan, but I don't see why not
command450 said:
Does this reciever have any more value since it was a factory built imported reciever? whats it worth by itself?
Some folks might care to spend a penny on a real commie made receiver. Some might not.
 

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command450 said:
thanks Nalioth,


So given here in michigan you can sell a semiauto rifle from person to person without any paper work, then I should be able to do a face to face with someone with out any paper work,right?


also I would like to ask you some more questions if you dont mind........


Does this reciever have any more value since it was a factory built imported reciever? whats it worth by itself?
If you build it with a folding stock, in MI, it MUST be registered as a pistol, unless you put a ~20" barrel on it - which I doubt you would do.

Any rifle with a folding stock that measures under 30" with the stock folded/collapsed is classified as a pistol in MI. Also you cannot include muzzle devices into the length UNLESS they are permanently attached.

The length is measured parallel to the barrel from the two most extreme points, i.e. sit the gun up against a wall, so that is the pistol grip is past the receiver is touches the ground first. Then measure up the wall till you level of with the tip of the BARREL (or fixed muzzle device) - that is you length in legal terms, in MI.

The only rifle I have seen with a collapsing stock that isn't a pistol by classification, in MI, is a G3A4 (collapsing stock) - it's over 30".
 

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One correction....

"Also you cannot include muzzle devices into the length UNLESS they are permanently attached."

Negative - this is an invention of local Departments. Example - in my area of MI? I have a perfectly valid Green Card for an SLR106 folder with a detachable muzzle device.

Here is the text of the MI Ag Opinion:

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/1980s/op06280.htm

Do a search for muzzle devices - no reference. "Permanently attached" - no reference. No definition of "permanant". EVERYONE registering a folder in MI should carry this document with them to their local Police Station.

Not ragging on you at all - rather, the state police assuming the authority to MODIFY the very Ag Opinion they quote: they are NOT legislators, nor are they empowered to create pseudo laws out of thin air. If they want an opinion on muzzle devices? THAT is why they HAVE an AG in the first place... they should ask the current AG for another another opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Stazi said:
command450 said:
thanks Nalioth,


So given here in michigan you can sell a semiauto rifle from person to person without any paper work, then I should be able to do a face to face with someone with out any paper work,right?


also I would like to ask you some more questions if you dont mind........


Does this reciever have any more value since it was a factory built imported reciever? whats it worth by itself?
If you build it with a folding stock, in MI, it MUST be registered as a pistol, unless you put a ~20" barrel on it - which I doubt you would do.

Any rifle with a folding stock that measures under 30" with the stock folded/collapsed is classified as a pistol in MI. Also you cannot include muzzle devices into the length UNLESS they are permanently attached.

The length is measured parallel to the barrel from the two most extreme points, i.e. sit the gun up against a wall, so that is the pistol grip is past the receiver is touches the ground first. Then measure up the wall till you level of with the tip of the BARREL (or fixed muzzle device) - that is you length in legal terms, in MI.

The only rifle I have seen with a collapsing stock that isn't a pistol by classification, in MI, is a G3A4 (collapsing stock) - it's over 30".



so then if I sell the reciever by itself does it "alone" have to be registered as a pistol, given its a folding stock reciever?


thanks everyone for the help,btw


I actually want a stock version of the 5.45 and thats why I was thinking of selling it or trading it off
 

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OK next question, if its clasified as a pistol in michigan it should be registered as such, that I know, but if your from Indiana, and you have a CCW which you can use in Michigan (and follow Michigan Law) could you bring your folding AK, like you could bring in and carry a pistol?
 

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command450 said:
Stazi said:
command450 said:
thanks Nalioth,


So given here in michigan you can sell a semiauto rifle from person to person without any paper work, then I should be able to do a face to face with someone with out any paper work,right?


also I would like to ask you some more questions if you dont mind........


Does this reciever have any more value since it was a factory built imported reciever? whats it worth by itself?
If you build it with a folding stock, in MI, it MUST be registered as a pistol, unless you put a ~20" barrel on it - which I doubt you would do.

Any rifle with a folding stock that measures under 30" with the stock folded/collapsed is classified as a pistol in MI. Also you cannot include muzzle devices into the length UNLESS they are permanently attached.

The length is measured parallel to the barrel from the two most extreme points, i.e. sit the gun up against a wall, so that is the pistol grip is past the receiver is touches the ground first. Then measure up the wall till you level of with the tip of the BARREL (or fixed muzzle device) - that is you length in legal terms, in MI.

The only rifle I have seen with a collapsing stock that isn't a pistol by classification, in MI, is a G3A4 (collapsing stock) - it's over 30".



so then if I sell the reciever by itself does it "alone" have to be registered as a pistol, given its a folding stock reciever?


thanks everyone for the help,btw


I actually want a stock version of the 5.45 and thats why I was thinking of selling it or trading it off
The SAR 2 you have is a sidefolder, correct? The style where the folder mechanism is in the stock and not in the trunnion, correct, i.e. just like a regular receiver.

If so then provided you don't use the sidefolder on it it can be built and sold as a riifle.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
xarmy96 said:
OK next question, if its clasified as a pistol in michigan it should be registered as such, that I know, but if your from Indiana, and you have a CCW which you can use in Michigan (and follow Michigan Law) could you bring your folding AK, like you could bring in and carry a pistol?
I would say it should have the same exact guidelines that a pistol falls under.
 

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command450 said:
xarmy96 said:
OK next question, if its clasified as a pistol in michigan it should be registered as such, that I know, but if your from Indiana, and you have a CCW which you can use in Michigan (and follow Michigan Law) could you bring your folding AK, like you could bring in and carry a pistol?
I would say it should have the same exact guidelines that a pistol falls under.
So long as you conceal it properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Stazi said:
command450 said:
Stazi said:
command450 said:
thanks Nalioth,


So given here in michigan you can sell a semiauto rifle from person to person without any paper work, then I should be able to do a face to face with someone with out any paper work,right?


also I would like to ask you some more questions if you dont mind........


Does this reciever have any more value since it was a factory built imported reciever? whats it worth by itself?
If you build it with a folding stock, in MI, it MUST be registered as a pistol, unless you put a ~20" barrel on it - which I doubt you would do.

Any rifle with a folding stock that measures under 30" with the stock folded/collapsed is classified as a pistol in MI. Also you cannot include muzzle devices into the length UNLESS they are permanently attached.

The length is measured parallel to the barrel from the two most extreme points, i.e. sit the gun up against a wall, so that is the pistol grip is past the receiver is touches the ground first. Then measure up the wall till you level of with the tip of the BARREL (or fixed muzzle device) - that is you length in legal terms, in MI.

The only rifle I have seen with a collapsing stock that isn't a pistol by classification, in MI, is a G3A4 (collapsing stock) - it's over 30".



so then if I sell the reciever by itself does it "alone" have to be registered as a pistol, given its a folding stock reciever?


thanks everyone for the help,btw


I actually want a stock version of the 5.45 and thats why I was thinking of selling it or trading it off
The SAR 2 you have is a sidefolder, correct? The style where the folder mechanism is in the stock and not in the trunnion, correct, i.e. just like a regular receiver.

If so then provided you don't use the sidefolder on it it can be built and sold as a riifle.


It is the same side folder reciever (triangle) as a russian/bulgy krink would be. It originally had a triangle side folder on it.



but my point is, given its an imported reciever, if I built it up with imported parts, how would anyone know the difference?



I want a stock version, so either I am going to weld it up or I am going to get rid of it. But its a shame to change this reciever. some one built a srew build on it in the past and a few of the rear trunnion holes got egged out from the SCREW JOB, so it needs a little work either way, which I can easily handle. just wondering which route to go..........
 

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Original SAR 2 with a triangle folder? Sounds like someone modded it.

That receiver should (can only) be rebuilt into a triangle side folder seeing as it's cut for it.

I would salvage the recevier - you could sell it to someone waiting on those Bulgy side folder kits.

Or build one yourself and register it as a pistol.
 

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"So long as you conceal it properly"

Actually - I love this one :) It's the ultimate Nightmare result of MI foolishly equating a folder with a pistol :) None of us that have a MI CCW license would actually do it, but as the end result of flawed reasoning by the former AG? A CCW carrier with a trench coat COULD DO THIS.

My God - how would you like to be on THAT Traffic Stop? :) Never thought I would say so, but the MI Legislature needs to clean this mess up - it isn't good for anyone.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Trotsky said:
"So long as you conceal it properly"

Actually - I love this one :) It's the ultimate Nightmare result of MI foolishly equating a folder with a pistol :) None of us that have a MI CCW license would actually do it, but as the end result of flawed reasoning by the former AG? A CCW carrier with a trench coat COULD DO THIS.

My God - how would you like to be on THAT Traffic Stop? :) Never thought I would say so, but the MI Legislature needs to clean this mess up - it isn't good for anyone.


yes, total dopes...............no clue at all about small arms.


very stupid to make people have to register a rifle basically,as a pistol.

years ago we use to collect m1 folding carbines, and never registered them .........none of them ever were registered to begin with !!!
 

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Ok, just for grins...

As I understand it in MI anything under 30" folded must be registered as a pistol.

A pistol can have any length barrel (I am assuming from 1" to 16")

So with that logic,

If you built an AMD65 with a folding stock and the orig 12" barrel as a "pistol" would you have to pay the SBR tax since it is not considered a rifle?

Thats kinda strange...
 

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sKott? Yes, you would... that's a FEDERAL law. But not to worry - MI bans all Federaly approved SBR's anyway.

Our State needs serious work....
 

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Thank God I'm in Texas. - That's a little messed up...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Trotsky said:
sKott? Yes, you would... that's a FEDERAL law. But not to worry - MI bans all Federaly approved SBR's anyway.

Our State needs serious work....


I am not an expert on MI gun laws, but thats what I have learned from others..............maybe I am wrong, but yes, YOU CANNOT EVEN OWN A SBR !!!!!



Michigan has two polar opposites going on, the west side and the north are mostly conservative and its legislators(progun) would be glad to get rid of dumb ass gun laws(like the SBR ban), but the east side(detroit) and its law makers are mostly anti gun democrats, that came up with this bull#@%$ :evil: sorry, to all you east siders that are progun, but you know what I mean. IMO.


there are worse states, quite a few, you can sell used rifles here with hi cap mags with no paper, and theres a huge hunting base here,one of the nations largest deer hunting states on top of it.



I like living here because we have the greatest lakes in the world along with gorgeous woods and rivers...................but man the laws here were set up by a bunch of @sshats!!!
 
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