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Just bought one of these off Ebay because I wanted/needed one for my NDM -86 and it was expensive. Anyone know how wide spread the issue of these was within the PRC military?
Thanks, Mike
Thanks, Mike
Chinese wire cutter bayonet question
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The price it ended at was probably about average considering the rarity and uniqueness of it. But I believe most of those were made specifically for commercial export to be included with the commercially exported NDM-86 rifles. Not for PLA issue or use.
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Rayman,
Thanks for the reply. You're probably right although it seems strange to tool up and make a bayonet for such a limited issue. However, I've only seen one other actual one and that was with one of the red velvet cased NDM's. The two this vendor had are the only ones I've seen for sale and I can't find any pics or references of their use outside these particular export rifles. Given that, I guess they are rare. I'm probably lucky to have found one at all.
Thanks for the reply. You're probably right although it seems strange to tool up and make a bayonet for such a limited issue. However, I've only seen one other actual one and that was with one of the red velvet cased NDM's. The two this vendor had are the only ones I've seen for sale and I can't find any pics or references of their use outside these particular export rifles. Given that, I guess they are rare. I'm probably lucky to have found one at all.
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The bayonets usually shipped with all the early NDM-86 rifles - those in the regular boxes and the velvet box editions. The Chinese didn't seem to have any issues with setting up manufacturing processes to do "clone" stuff. They're fairly good and efficient at it for commercial resale. Anything that makes money seemed to be fair game.
Issue to and use with the PLA - that seems to be a different story with what they manufacture. Just handling and observing the design of the Type 81 bayonet reveals what they actually deem military-worthy.
Issue to and use with the PLA - that seems to be a different story with what they manufacture. Just handling and observing the design of the Type 81 bayonet reveals what they actually deem military-worthy.
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Here's the item number for the bayonet: 350357992259. This one and the other one I saw seem to be more of a reddish brown color then the Soviet ones. No markings at all and this one came with the incorrect hanger shown.
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Mr. Holley, a very advanced knife and sword collector, offered that one on his auction. Aside from the few he had that he's listed in past auctions, there's just not a lot of them out there jumping out for sale. And those in collections seem to stay there for a good while until they're sold for quite a bit.
One seems to pop up every two or three years. Eventually one may run across your path in a while.
One seems to pop up every two or three years. Eventually one may run across your path in a while.
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By incorrect hanger, I mean that Mr. Holley told me he added this East German hanger simply because the bayonet looked "naked".
I believe the correct way to attach these bayonets to a belt is by a nickled or blued belt clip, which appear on some of Mr. Holley's auctioned standard Chinese bayonets. These are also uncommon.
I believe the correct way to attach these bayonets to a belt is by a nickled or blued belt clip, which appear on some of Mr. Holley's auctioned standard Chinese bayonets. These are also uncommon.
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I was tracking with what you meant. :wink: One of our esteemed members used to make belt hangers and manufactured one that looked good for the NDM-86 bayonet. Those little clips can certainly be used to attach to a belt but I'm told they have nothing to do with any military-issue. Since the Chinese red/black/green bakelite "short" Type II bayonets, along with the standard-sized NDM-86 Type II, were made solely for civilian commercial sale, they weren't manufactured with any hangers or frogs that folks know of. The clips were apparently something that were created also for the commercial sales of the bayonets. But as far as I understand, the NDM-86 bayonet never had the clip with it.greendevil41 said:
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rayman, while the ones here were manufactured for commercial sale, aren't the bayonets they used for their own Type 56 rifles the same style?
I was excited that I have a bayo with one of those rare clips, now I'm not that excited because it's just a commercial item. This "thing" of ours is like a rollercoaster.
I was excited that I have a bayo with one of those rare clips, now I'm not that excited because it's just a commercial item. This "thing" of ours is like a rollercoaster.
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That's the weird thing about the Chinese bayonets. They used the M1947 model (similar to the Polytech Legend bayonet) for a long time - or rather, they had the front sight base and gas blocks which facilitate use of that bayonet. However, you never see any bayonets on any gear or rifles of the Chinese soldiers from photos taken during the Sino-Vietnamese War or the Sino-Soviet War. With that said, I've got photos of them coducting training with the bayonets mounted on their stamped receiver Type 56 rifles.
The Chinese have several variations of the M1947 bayonet. There's even variants with bakelite scales (side panels on the handle). The actual Chinese military M1947 bayonet is an extremely rare beast. I've only ever seen three real ones and, unfortunately, they're a very rare item in China, as well. They're more similar in appearance (bayonet and scabbard) to the Russian M1947, than the Polytech Legend bayonet. When found, they seem to be several hundreds of dollars from Chinese sources - and that's before trying to figure a way to get them out of China as they're severely prohibited.
The Chinese have several variations of the M1947 bayonet. There's even variants with bakelite scales (side panels on the handle). The actual Chinese military M1947 bayonet is an extremely rare beast. I've only ever seen three real ones and, unfortunately, they're a very rare item in China, as well. They're more similar in appearance (bayonet and scabbard) to the Russian M1947, than the Polytech Legend bayonet. When found, they seem to be several hundreds of dollars from Chinese sources - and that's before trying to figure a way to get them out of China as they're severely prohibited.
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Shucks, thanks for the info. I guess I never did see mil pics with the Type II bayos attached. There is a AKF famous photo in the Chinese rifle pic thread of a guy using a rifle with a underfolding spike bayo. He is certainly not in military garb, perhaps he is some sort of local militiaman. Otherwise, I don't think I've seen Chinese troops with that variant of the T56 before either.
I don't want to derail the OP's thread any further with a general bayonet discussion. I am however going to be part of the Type 79 SVD club soon and want a correct bayonet to go with it.
I don't want to derail the OP's thread any further with a general bayonet discussion. I am however going to be part of the Type 79 SVD club soon and want a correct bayonet to go with it.
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The way the People's Liberation Army works is that each province is a military district. It is supposed to be able to be self sufficient military wise. The reasoning was that would make it harder for the Soviets to divide and conquer. Almost each province had its own arms factories. Maybe a few provinces decided to use Type 1 spear point bayonets.
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