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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We lost the ability to purchase russian ak pattern weapons, parts and accessories because a malaysian airliner had the bright idea to fly over a restricted airspace/no fly zone/war zone?

Even if it was the russians or russian backed forces that shot them down, what the hell were they doing flying through a active war zone?

How were they able to set a flight plan like that? As far as I know commercial flights cant just pick whatever flight plan/path they want??

Malaysian airlines defended publicly their decision to fly that path. Why??

Same make and model from the same airline dissapeared into thin air in march. Two disasters involving the same airline, same make and model plane in a 4 month span??

Missing Plane Found? Nope; but Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, Flight 17 Disasters Tainting Airliner

Two austrailians on downed mh17, lost relatives on missing flight mh370.

Two Australians on downed MH17 lost relatives on missing flight MH370 | World news | theguardian.com

Your freaking kidding me right???? And now Malaysian airlines flew through no fly zone/restricted airspace/warzone in syria in rebel held areas where they are known to possess surface to air missles??

UPDATE 2-Malaysia Airlines flight over Syria reflects war zone challenge

"*We saw no other trans-continental flight that went through Syrian airspace yesterday."

But malaysian airlines decided to?? And we lost our ability to purchase russian weapons, parts and accessories for a indefinite amount of time through backdoor tactics. Not to mention all the good folks who will lose their jobs and or buisinesses over these sanctions.
 

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For the Obama administration, this is a win win situation. Placement of basically meaningless sanctions on Russia to look and talk tough domestically and beat up on the second amendment at the same time. It doesn't get much better than that for this group of politicians.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Potentially issued on 7/16 in anticipation of the statistically highly unlikely event that malaysian airlines would just happen to ignore all sense and ignore a no fly zone/restricted airspace/active warzone and basically provoke an attack that would become malaysian airlines second tradgedy in four months?? For real??

Australlian victims of the lost flight had direct relatives on the downed flight?

And now they are flying over another active warzone only days later in syria?

This scenario defies logic and is extremely convienent. Not to mention a nearly impossible coincidence.

Former and active millitary, can commercial flights just chose to fly over warzones/restricted airspace/bases?

Any pilots or air traffic control people, what do you think?

Lets think logically here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Russia only stood to lose in the worlds eyes by shooting down a commercial airliner. Russia wont shoot until theyre ready to go all the way and they will make sure to let us know theyre not playing games.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sanctions issued 7/16
"Audio proof" supposed conversation between russian general and rebel..audio file created 7/16. Hmm how could you create a file time stamped the day before it actually happend?

 

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Potentially issued on 7/16 in anticipation of the statistically highly unlikely event that malaysian airlines would just happen to ignore all sense and ignore a no fly zone/restricted airspace/active warzone and basically provoke an attack that would become malaysian airlines second tradgedy in four months?? For real??
No, sanctions issued due to Russia's shitty actions regarding seizing land during political upheaval in Ukraine for the past several months.

Good lord, it's as though no one has been paying attention to geopolitics until a week ago.

Sanctions issued 7/16
"Audio proof" supposed conversation between russian general and rebel..audio file created 7/16. Hmm how could you create a file time stamped the day before it actually happend?
The same way I can take a picture today with my camera, but my camera will tell you that the picture I took today was taken on 2007/01/01.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It was a internet cache time stam.p that cant be modified. Then when the time stamp issue came up it was the file was deleted but its still cached online. Just like every thing youve ever put online like deleted pics and myspace profiles deleted 8yrs ago.
 

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I'd try to post some rational arguments but then I realized it'd probably be a lost cause.

Has no one even heard of Occam's Razor these days?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yeah theres been issues in the ukraine for awhile. As a matter of fact russia predicted a world war being started over ukraine/crimea all the way back in 2008. Heres a link to the original russian article from 2008 predicting a call for world war 3. Use translator.

Îáàìà íà÷íåò òðåòüþ ìèðîâóþ ñ Êðûìà




They predicted the war will "leave russia weak" which doesnt sound like they are looking forward to it.

Russia has already realeased sattelite images, how come the u.s. hasnt? Even though we watch the battle zone in real time via sattelite??

The plane being shot down was the way to backdoor sanctions and gun control with minimal opposition.
 

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It was a internet cache time stam.p that cant be modified. Then when the time stamp issue came up it was the file was deleted but its still cached online. Just like every thing youve ever put online like deleted pics and myspace profiles deleted 8yrs ago.
It's my industry. If the time isn't synced correctly on the servers responsible for that file upload, the timestamp is worthless. Timestamps are also mutable.

Beyond that, if the audio was actually uploaded prior to the event, that means it would have needed to be recorded even earlier, and the Ukrainians would have had to know hours or days ahead of time that the plane was going to divert its flight over the area. We're talking next-level tin-foil-hat conspiracy territory here.

Here's a fun thing to do. Skip to 1:54 in the "Busted!" video and note the date at the time, then look at what date the "Busted!" video was uploaded. Either the uploader is also a time traveller, or the timestamps are worthless.

The plane being shot down was the way to backdoor sanctions and gun control with minimal opposition.
The EO was in process before the plane was ever at issue:

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20140716.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
 

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The plane being shot down didn't need to happen for sanctions. They could have done that when all the business in the Crimea took place and that's the way it looked like it was going a few months back.

A lot of folks in the west are extremely leery of releasing imagery from classified systems. Believe it or not, but spy sattelites are one of those systems.
 

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Yeah theres been issues in the ukraine for awhile. As a matter of fact russia predicted a world war being started over ukraine/crimea all the way back in 2008. Heres a link to the original russian article from 2008 predicting a call for world war 3. Use translator.

Îáàìà íà÷íåò òðåòüþ ìèðîâóþ ñ Êðûìà




They predicted the war will "leave russia weak" which doesnt sound like they are looking forward to it.

Russia has already realeased sattelite images, how come the u.s. hasnt? Even though we watch the battle zone in real time via sattelite??

The plane being shot down was the way to backdoor sanctions and gun control with minimal opposition.
Do you tie your own shoelaces ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Occams razor is the equivilant of just listen to the narrative your fed without question or further research, in my opinion.

"Everything is fine, we love you. Dont worry, you dont need to protect your self. Just go back to watching sports and get drunk, we will take care of you"

Still would love to hear from pilots/air traffic control/millitary with real world experience about how easy it is or isnt to deviate from flight plan over a restricted area/base/warzone.

I be willing to bet if you even deviated from flight plan in a cessna and fly over a base youd be quickly met by f16s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yes I tied my shoe laces right afterI provided multiple links including from main stream outlets.
 

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Still would love to hear from pilots/air traffic control/millitary with real world experience about how easy it is or isnt to deviate from flight plan over a restricted area/base/warzone.
The airspace they flew in was not restricted.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On 1 July Ukrainian officials advised pilots not to fly below 26,000 feet (7,900 m) over eastern Ukraine.[62] On 14 July Ukrainian officials increased that limit to 32,000 feet (9,800 m).
According to the International Air Transport Association, the aircraft was in unrestricted airspace when it lost contact.[72][73] Eurocontrol stated that at the time of the crash MH17 was at Flight Level 330 (33,000 feet or 10,060 metres), above restricted airspace.[74]
It's also not the only civilian aircraft that's flown over the area in the last few months.
 

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I can't say for sure about that region. but in the US you can deviate. But flying in to an active war zone I'm sure they knew about the notams before flying in that area and I doubt they would ever get permission to even fly over Ukraine. You have to get permission from every country you will fly over when making a flight plan. There is likely some gross negligence. Atc would have been in contact if they were using flight following. Atc should have been warning them. But don't take my word for it. I only have a couple hundred hours flight time.
 

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Can't believe I'm doing this, but I'm bored babysitting IT junk, so...

Occam's Razor, in a nutshell, means that you look for the simpliest possible explanation to a question. The more complex the answer, the less likely it is to be true. While complex answers can and have been true, that does not mean the complex answer is always the right one. For example: "Aliens ate my baby sitter! That's why she's gone!" - is it more likely that she was eaten by aliens or that she could simply be in another room? Took a walk? Went home?

In this particular case, you're assuming that a Malaysian airliner was shot down in a grand conspiracy involving the US gov't and the Ukraine gov't in order to squeeze in some mechanic of backdoor arms control. Other possible causes:

- Aliens blew it up. Cause they're assholes like that.
- It's the missing Malaysian airliner from earlier this year that went into a time warp vortex and suddenly appeared, displacing another Malaysian airliner and caused a chain reaction, merging the two airliners, and exploding them over eastern Ukraine.
- Ukraine shot it down in the hopes of blaming it on Russia or separatists in eastern Ukraine in order to drum up popular support for their conflict.
- Ukrainian separatists shot it down because they couldn't discern civil from military aviation.
- Russians shot it down because they drank too much vodka and thought that NATO was conducting an invasion.

Then you might ask why the aircraft was over the region to begin with. Let's look at a few possible answers:

- Ghosts told the flight crew they'd better change their route or else they will haunt them with horrible disco music from the 70s for the rest of their lives.
- Ukrainian air traffic controllers were hoping to provoke an international incident by redirecting civil aviation over the conflict area.
- The air crews decided to fly toward Russia to avoid storms in the Crimea.

Again, a lot of your answers assume that back door gun control is the reason behind most of this. That ignores the fact that they don't need any reasons for things like sanctions, which they could have easily imposed earlier this year before all this business took place. It also ignores that most airliners were not overflying Ukraine to begin with on account of the conflict, but asian airlines have a poor safety record - in other words, they try to save costs where ever they can regardless of the hazards.
 

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I'll have you know that Nigerian prince offering me eleventy billion dollars really did send that email on 1/1/1970!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here are three things that are universaly excepted.

Mh17=mia
Mh370=shot down
Malyasian flight flies through rebel held restricted area/no fly zone and was the only comercial flight to attempt it.

At the very least malaysia must be brain dead with suicidal death wish.

It sucks that we lose rights/call to war because of ignorance.
 
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