[Krinkfreak]

Definitely one you should stay away from...

 

[Nathan03]

I prefer Bushmaster then RRA. I do have a Colt LEM4 for duty but I still perfer my Bushy or RRA.

 

[Templar]

What TheKatar said............

I drink the Colt kool-aid.......

Colt and FN are the two USGI suppliers.....FN for the rifles and Colt for the Carbines. Both companies MP test the ALL the barrels, bolts, and bolt carriers, and the quality of the parts is top notch.

LMT is also top of the line.

STAG, RRA, Bushmaster, S&W (CMT), and Armalite all make a fine rifle, but like Katar said, ask the guys who really use these things hard and who teach the courses, and you'll find that Colts have the least amount of issues, DPMS and Olympic tend to have the most, under hard use.

Since you can't buy an FN rifle........that leaves Colt and LMT.

Colt's been using standard diameter pins for a few years now. Everything on a Colt is milspec, with the exception of the civillian non chrome lined barrels on some of the models, but all the LE marked guns, which are readily available, have chrome lined bores.

My Colt AR-15A2......

 

[RJMech]

I have shot Bushmasters, Colts, and Rock Rivers and I hope to acquire at least one of each. I currently own a neuteured Bushy with the 20" barrel and my next one is going to be a RRA Entry Tactical. I hope to get a pre-ban Colt when funds allow, so I guess you can say I recommend all three. I definetly dont want to get in a Colt vs. the world pissing match because all I'll get is a wet leg :wink:

 

[CONN AK]

Colt is the state of the art.

 

[Bryant]

I owned four Colt's, all Pre-Ban, dumped them all because of the Non-Mil Spec parts they used and self regulating Bullshit. Now suddenly they produce a mil-spec rifle yet the prices are nearly 30% greater than what you would pay for most others. I don't honestly consider Bushmaster or RRA in the same league. However CMT, LMT, CMMG spec DPMS, are all in the same league as Colt and FN, only they cost less.

 

[Guest]

DELETED

 

[Dawg180]

First of all, I can't believe that this thread ever left ARFCom.

Second, all of you Colt-bashers are certainly entitled to your opinions but I would have to disagree with you.

Colt is the number one Tier 1 manufacturer of AR rifles. There are other Tier 1 manufacturers such as FN and LMT. The difference between Tier 2 and 3 is in the specs of the components and the testing.

You may love your Bushy or RRA and that's fine and I'm sure that they run for you at the range, but have you ever really run your rifle hard? I mean really hard? Taken it through a few days of a carbine course at least?

If you bypass ARFCom and ask for some professional opinions (think 10-8 Forums, etc.) they will all tell you to buy a Colt, and usually an LE6920. This is because in actual use they have the lowest observed failure rate.

All of the Colt parts are in spec, their carrier keys are properly staked, their barrel extensions and feed ramps are correct and their bolts and barrels are MP tested.

Bushmaster and DPMS have an alarming tendency to break bolts. RRA has a pretty decent reputation but the truth is that the Colt guns are superior in the long haul. LMT and CMMG are also putting out fine products. The jury is still out on Sabre but they have been getting good reviews - I know that I'm happy with my Sabre lower so far.

If you like your AR and it shoots well for you that's fine; making shit up about Colt doesn't make any sense though. If they "hate civilians" then why can anybody go buy a Colt rifle?

Katar, I think if you are going to do the "Colt is best because professionals say so and so do statistics about reliablity/parts failure" that you better back that up with some hard numbers.

As far as Bushmaster and/or DPMS breaking bolts "at an alarming rate" I would like to see some data for that too.

I am not saying that there aren't hard numbers to back that up, but if there are I want to see them.

I will agree wholeheartedly that ARFCOM is not a good sampling because you don't know if you are getting a full cross section of the AR-15 community and even if you were not every person is going to go to the effort to post about a broken bolt. Liewise, it is very rare that you know the conditions and maintenace that the rifle were run under. Most the times the guys posting about that sort of thing are trying to prove something.

Likewise, some guy with credentials up the ying-yang as a firearms instuctor isn't a good statistical source if he has run a class with 11 guys, 8 of who were running Colts, 2 running Bushmasters, and one a DPMS where the DPMS suffers a broken bolt. You could say that Colts are 100% reliable and DPMS rifles are 100% reliable based on that data and technically you would be right, but it is a meaningless sample.

Anyhow, show us some data or at least some thread references so we got something to work with.

Dawg

[ETA] There is one other thign we should get ou in the open here. I own a DPMS, an Olympic Arms, and a PWA AR-15 (PWA being out of business). My DPMS has never had a failure of any sort in 2500+ rounds, so I trust it more than any other rifle. If I was a betting man I would bet you (Katar) own mostly or only Colt rifles. Everyone has a bias (whther concious or subconcious) based on personal experience, I just want to get mine out in the open, and woudl appreciate if you would gets yours out there too.

 

[h8mtv]

I use Colt bolts and barrels in my builds almost exclusively (plenty of nice used stuff on the EE). I would never buy a complete Colt again though. Too much money for a gun that does not have the fit or finish of something I can buy from RRA, LMT, Stag, or build myself (my pref'd method :wink: ).

ETA:

Colts customer service absolutely does stink. They do not want to sell guns with "evil" features to the civvy marketplace. Not a company I want to do business with personally.

 

[Mike@NDS]

I don't own an AR that was factory built. Why would I pay $800+ for a factory AR?????

ALL my guns are mutts. I buy what I like from each manufacturer, and put it together myself. If it doesn't work, I fix it.

Anybody that has reoccurring problems with AR's needs to:

1. Buy quality parts

2. Learn how to properly diagnose malfunctions

3. take an armorers course

4. Sell them and buy an AK! :grin:

 

[Zane Zackerly]

Thekatar and Templar: your answers are what I was looking for.

I, too, used to drink the Colt Kool Aid. I stopped after the third rifle that came NIB with a badly rusted spring. Since it was more than one rifle, I blame the manufacturer and not just bad storage at a distributor.

One handguard spring was so badly pitted that it had to have taken YEARS for it to get that bad. I speculated that Colt was installing parts in the civilian rifles that it knew wouldn't pass military inspection.

That, and the expense of Colt rifles, made me become an ex-Kool Aid drinker.

But they are the only game in town, other than LMT, huh?

 

[MauserMark]

Katar laid it out well, but:

#1 the issue with colt front holes being larger was ended a while back. I've swapped uppers before with my pal's match target lower and upper with some of my lowers. I don't believe they make the large hole upper and lowers anymore, I could be wrong. That was ORIGINALLY intended to prevent citizens from swapping out military upper and lowers with theirs. I mean think about it, before the AR boom came along who else made ar15s for civy use?

#2 The dark colt gray is put on their ARs simply because they want colt uppers to stay on colt lowers. Not rocket science.

:twisted:

 

[WarDawg]

I own Colts, Bushies and RRA. I personally like the RRA the best over all. Fit and finish . All very well made rifles. WarDawg

 

[Tooly]

No problems with my armalite !!!
After the ban was gone , armalite sent me a real tel stock for free , all I had to do was send them my pinned stock to them !!! :grin:

 

[John@JCDLESales]

Well from an Old Fart that has built enough of them he would like to forget.

!. Colt Sucks PERIOD

2. Having built alot of Post Samples DPMS require the least amount of machining to install the sears and are definately one of the strongest.

3. You aren't going to beat Rock River for quality and workmanship. All the Agencies know this and this is why RR are scarce in the marketplace at this time.

4. I have been brought Bushy MG's sent to 2 different PD's that would not run more than 3 Rds. They were shipped to the PD's with the wrong buffers :shock: Calling Bushmaster I was lied to by a guy named Israel who told me on 2 different occasions the Replacement Buffers "Were In The Mail" 3 weeks later No Buffers. They will not ever get any of my business.

5. M&A has some of the best heavy MG 11.5" barrels (Wilson) with FN uppers that will hold up in MG's.

6. If your making a Shorty get the Skull Tenderizer Stock for a few extra bucks well worth it .

7. 1 piece Gas Rings and the machined cam pin retainer are a must for 100% reliability.

 

[innocent_bystander]

I still remember when Rock River had all of those flat top uppers with out of spec rails that nothing would fit on. RR then went so far as to say there was a new rail spec to cover up the problem. Pissed a bunch of people off and turned me away from RR for good.

I still find Colt and Bushmaster chrome lined barrels to be the best.

I will also only use M16 bolts and carriers marked C MP in all of my ARs.

Also avoid anyone who is claiming to sell FN parts. They are lying.

 

[Jay Cunningham]

Okay, this will be my last and final post on this topic:

The majority of experienced carbine instructors recommend Colt rifles because out of the thousands of AR carbines they have seen run in hundreds of classes the Colt rifles have held up the best.

This information is not convincing to many of you. The argument always seems to be that "Well, my Armalite/RRA/Bushmaster/etc. has never failed me at the range and I've put almost 1000 rounds through it over the last two years."

Put a 1000 rounds through it in one day and get back to me.

If you have a particualr AR rifle and you have run several thousand rounds through it with no significant issues, then it is most likely a good gun and it will be fine.

When subjected to heavy use over an extended duration, the Colt-assembeled rifles will consistently perform better than other brands. This is the observation of the majority of experienced firearms instructors.

My question is, why would you not believe what these individuals have to tell you? Would you ever be convinced? Could you be?

Now for the real question:

What is better, a 1911 or a Glock? :twisted:

 

[carbineer]

I haven't had the ability to test a wide variety of AR's, only an Oly and a Bushy. The Bushy was a great rifle shot better than I clould and functioned flawlessy with quality mags. Let it go only because I could get good $ for it toward another project.
The Oly I put an Tactial entry butstock and rail system handguard on it. Functions flawlessly and shoots great. Seems to be ammo sensitive, shoots well with all ammo except Olympic and shoots GREAT with Hotshot SS109.
The major brands allhave ther followings and all should serve you well, so the best one is the one that fits your need and budget best (when you need a break from your AK that is :wink: ).
Happy shooting

 

[John@JCDLESales]

*Note I Said (Colt) as in the Company Sucks not the weapon. Sorry for the confusion. A Chrome Bore will also never produce the degree of MOA a Non Chrome Bore will, common knowledge even to the most casual observer of High Power Competion.

 

[Stottman]

The first gun and gun parts that I purchased were Bushmaster AR parts.. Good quality, but were a MAJOR disappointment when I compared the parts to my USGI issued Colt M-16A2 and later M4A1.