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I certainly dont think it is incompetence, it was done intentionally to muddy the waters and they will go back and forth with their intent to snag up as many people as possible. They have time on their side, we dont. They either get all of these peoples info which they WILL go after if their rule isnt struck down or then wind up with all your private info you gave them. The ATF isnt above entrapment, ruby ridge comes to mind. They hate gun owners and they will do anything to strip rights away or kill you in the process saying you had a illegal plastic.


I wouldn't turn in or tell them squat. Eventually they will loose this rule or so I can hope. The reason they are doing this is because they DONT KNOW who has a brace other then what was reported on thr 4473.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I certainly dont think it is incompetence, it was done intentionally to muddy the waters and they will go back and forth with their intent to snag up as many people as possible. They have time on their side, we dont. They either get all of these peoples info which they WILL go after if their rule isnt struck down or then wnd up with all your private info you gave them. The ATF isnt above entrapment, ruby ridge comes to mind. They hate gun owners and they will do anything to strip rights away or kill you in the process sating you had a illegal plastic.


I wouldn't turn in or tell them squat. Eventually they will loose this rule or so I can hope. The reason they are doing this is because they DONT KNOW who has a brace other then what was reported on thr 4473.
That’s definitely possible, but man I’ve seen how shockingly fucking stupid some of these people are… I don’t put anything past them.
 

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No doubt

I’m not so sure it’s a trap… it sure looks like it.
. I think it’s just blatant incompetence. They like things to be ambiguous so there’s all kinds of grey areas for them to operate in. I honestly think they’re putting their toes in the water to see if they get away with this to set precedence. Then they can decide to ban whatever they want.
Yep. It's a ruling that supersedes several previous rulings, so it's almost impossible to keep up with what's legal or not. They have been poking at the 2nd Amendment for a long time, so it's quite possible that this is an attempt to gauge how compliant people are. It will be very interesting to see how many Form 1s they receive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
There’s so much misinformation out there including in these videos I posted it’s pissing me off.
the 88 day thing is wrong. These YouTube videos of everyone just parroting the same Bs is getting ridiculous. Don’t listen to these people. Do what works for you until this bs blows over if it ever does. Most of the information that I have gotten in these videos has turnedout to be wrong.
 

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Ya it’s weird. The video from Gand G interviews a lawyer from shot show. Who talked to an ATF agent there. Sounds poorly thought out. I think they did this to see if it would get shot down. If the courts don’t slap it down that will set a precedence and the ATF will go and make whatever they want illegal.
Other attorneys explained it thusly.
1) Gunowner sends Form1 into the ATF
2) ATF sends the background check to NICS/FBI
3) NICS will attempt a background check on gunowner. If the background check cannot be completed in 88 days, the check "times out" and the status is "open" for the NICS check.
4) ATF finds that the NICS check is "open" and denies the Form's approval.
5) ATF sends a letter explaining that the gunowner must "clear" the "open" situation (which may be as simple as an unfiled/improperly filed legal document/report; maybe not).
6) At its discretion, the ATF permits the gunowner to re-apply after the situation that caused the "open" background check has been "cleared". Or, follow what the ARF agent told the attorney

By law, NICS cannot keep the background check information longer than 90 days. The NICS system is configured to delete "open" investigations on the 88th day of processing. My experience that NICS checks take about an hour but I have seen situations where a buyer is delayed 3 days for a completed NICS check.

My conclusion is that the ATF and NICS are separately complicated systems and when submitting a Form, the applicant is facing two different complex system that don't always work well together. (Yesterday, I told spoke with a Federal LEO and he told me that he avoids the ATF and thinks badly of them.)
HTH
 

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Hey All.
Any of us who already have a form 1 know that under the current ATF it’s 6 months or longer to get approval. If you send your info in for a “free” tax stamp you need to know that after 80 days you’re going to get an automatic denial. Now 6 months is the current lead time for a form 1 approval. How long do you think the lead times going to be when 40 million people try to register these new “SBRs”. If they do decide to just deny your application you will have already incriminated yourself sending photos finger prints and address…..
Just sayin:
I just got a Form 1 SBR this past summer...took 90 days on the dot, but was denied because I uploaded the unsigned copy of my 5320. They told me to resubmit and that came back approved in 45 days. Now my Form 4 that just got approved took 266 days, but the form 1 was right on time.

Also, they are prohibited from using any information you submit against you in prosecution, so I don't really see this being a conspiracy for people to incriminate themselves. If anything, by claiming braced pistols are now SBR's, then they've admitted SBR's are now common use and should be removed from the NFA. It'll be interesting to see how the court cases proceed.
 

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I laugh when everyone who sees the shady crap the ATF is doing, claim nothing bad will happen with their info they gave to them for their SBRs and supressors happly. Had surpressors before myself and glad I no longer do. Untill the NFA is gone, I wont waste the money or energy.

Trusting the ATF to not change their minds on SBRs and surpressors as they do with everything else and freely put yourself on their registry is going to bite people in the ass eventually. I never bought the pistol brace guns even though I was tempted for a few guns i had seen.

Seen this day coming for years, people always made excuses for the ATF. They said they wont do that.

"They dont have an illegal registry from our 4473. they have to destroy them says the law."

We know thats true now, got called crazy on that a few times

"ATF wont go after bump stocks or pistol braces, they have their apporval letters" Changed their mind again, surprise.....

We know the ATF makes up the rules as they go, just because people paid their 200 bucks for their tax stamp doesn't mean they are safe either. They will change those rules too and they will be telling people to turn them in. Difference is they know who thas them and where to go. The NFA will never be repealed, too much money from fuuds and their collections. The fuuds dont want to loose their investments.
 
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I laugh when everyone who sees the shady crap the ATF is doing, claim nothing bad will happen with their info they gave to them for their SBRs and supressors happly. Had surpressors before myself and glad I no longer do. Untill the NFA is gone, I wont waste the money or energy.

Trusting the ATF to not change their minds on SBRs and surpressors as they do with everything else and freely put yourself on their registry is going to bite people in the ass eventually. I never bought the pistol brace guns even though I was tempted for a few guns i had seen.

Seen this day coming for years, people always made excuses for the ATF. They said they wont do that.

"They dont have an illegal registry from our 4473. they have to destroy them says the law."

We know thats true now, got called crazy on that a few times

"ATF wont go after bump stocks or pistol braces, they have their apporval letters" Changed their mind again, surprise.....

We know the ATF makes up the rules as they go, just because people paid their 200 bucks for their tax stamp doesn't mean they are safe either. They will change those rules too and be telling people to turn them in, they know who they are and where to go.
Maybe the ATF reads your posts and that’s why it took you 6 months for an SBR? Just sayin…seriously though, I don’t disagree that the left wants to leave us with nothing other than percussion cap firearms and bows and arrows, but I don’t think this particular tactic is going to accomplish that. I’m sure this will go through the courts and be tied up for awhile, just have to wait and see.
 

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I laugh when everyone who sees the shady crap the ATF is doing, claim nothing bad will happen with their info they gave to them for their SBRs and supressors happly. Had surpressors before myself and glad I no longer do. Untill the NFA is gone, I wont waste the money or energy.

Trusting the ATF to not change their minds on SBRs and surpressors as they do with everything else and freely put yourself on their registry is going to bite people in the ass eventually. I never bought the pistol brace guns even though I was tempted for a few guns i had seen.

Seen this day coming for years, people always made excuses for the ATF. They said they wont do that.

"They dont have an illegal registry from our 4473. they have to destroy them says the law."

We know thats true now, got called crazy on that a few times

"ATF wont go after bump stocks or pistol braces, they have their apporval letters" Changed their mind again, surprise.....

We know the ATF makes up the rules as they go, just because people paid their 200 bucks for their tax stamp doesn't mean they are safe either. They will change those rules too and they will be telling people to turn them in. Difference is they know who thas them and where to go. The NFA will never be repealed, too much money from fuuds and their collections. The fuuds dont want to loose their investments.
It has been known that there is an illegal gun registry. I don't trust the ATF at all. I never bought a bump stock nor a brace or gun with brace because I know how the ATF operates - laws be damned.
 

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Maybe the ATF reads your posts and that’s why it took you 6 months for an SBR? Just sayin…seriously though, I don’t disagree that the left wants to leave us with nothing other than percussion cap firearms and bows and arrows, but I don’t think this particular tactic is going to accomplish that. I’m sure this will go through the courts and be tied up for awhile, just have to wait and see.
What the government does is use fear. They don't have to go after all brace owners that do not register. They go after a few and make an example out of them. This scares most people into compliance.
 

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Maybe the ATF reads your posts and that’s why it took you 6 months for an SBR? Just sayin…seriously though, I don’t disagree that the left wants to leave us with nothing other than percussion cap firearms and bows and arrows, but I don’t think this particular tactic is going to accomplish that. I’m sure this will go through the courts and be tied up for awhile, just have to wait and see.
Its a fact they do, they are atf posing as members here posting nd other forums. They have people in every militia group, which you should never join one. It just as it is a fact everyone of their major busts they have an informant pushing others to break the law.

Their whole game is entrapment and when they cant get you to bend over they use violence. Ruby ridge comes to mind. Now they dont even hide it and still amazing people believe that 200 dollar tax stamp protects them.
 

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What the government does is use fear. They don't have to go after all brace owners that do not register. They go after a few and make an example out of them. This scares most people into compliance.
You have a valid point there my friend.
 

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Not to derail this thread entirely, but is there a consensus as to whether these stamps will let folks swap out the brace for an actual buttstock? When this first came out a few weeks ago, the stories were saying that this was some "special" class for braced pistols, and they wouldn't be considered an actual SBR so couldn't have a regular buttstock. Has anybody seen any clarification on that?
 

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Not to derail this thread entirely, but is there a consensus as to whether these stamps will let folks swap out the brace for an actual buttstock? When this first came out a few weeks ago, the stories were saying that this was some "special" class for braced pistols, and they wouldn't be considered an actual SBR so couldn't have a regular buttstock. Has anybody seen any clarification on that?
No, not a special class. It states in the FAQ that it is a standard SBR and you can either leave the brace on or swap for a stock.
 
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A lot of people in the Facebook Form 1 Basics and Support groups feel this is a fear mongering video to get membership and donations. Something about the 88 days or something.

However, I did see and watch a video on the Military Arms Channel where he talks about something from some other group that says this ruling actually screws people with imported firearms and the 922 R compliance thing. I suggest people go watch that video. Any issues with him or that video, take it up with him!
 

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A lot of people in the Facebook Form 1 Basics and Support groups feel this is a fear mongering video to get membership and donations. Something about the 88 days or something.

However, I did see and watch a video on the Military Arms Channel where he talks about something from some other group that says this ruling actually screws people with imported firearms and the 922 R compliance thing. I suggest people go watch that video. Any issues with him or that video, take it up with him!
They have amended this part of the rule as of last week. Also fyi if you have a gun trust that requires a notarized signature for the assignment sheet do you need to get that done this weekend or before the rule goes into effect Monday or Tuesday next week if you are going to submit.
 

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Not surprised they amended it. They took and were getting a lot of heat for that one part. On a side note, I think the common use test as written by Justice Scalia is going to help a lot with a lot of bans and rules and what not.

Video on Common Use Test:



What I also don't understand is why no one is using the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 to go after the ATF and stop them from creating and make them destroy the registration they've created and continue to create?!

Because it specifically states they nor anyone else can!


18 U.S. Code § 926

No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary’s [1] authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.



Video on the Firearms Owners Protection Act:

 
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