[OldTroop]

OK, at what point does a reciever have to be to require an FFL for transfer. I know an unbent flat isnt considered a firearm.....at what point is it????? Is a flat with all the holes in it ok????? What about bent????????

 

[Tomovich]

probably.............

Considering they sell flats with holes like popcorn I would say the minute it's bent, it's a weapon! That's my 2?........

 

[762BODYDROPPER]

The minute you try to sell it. When you build a rifle You become the manufacturer, Therefore you need to have a class 2 manufacturer (I think) to sell the rifle. You can build all the guns you want for yourself but you have to have a ffl to sell them. I wouldnt suggest trying to sell any homebuilds. However, I do not know if they are transferrable to family, Through wills or liek if I wanted to build the rifle and give it to my brother or son, or any other family member. Is it that you just cant sell the gun? Or is it that it is not transferrable at all?

 

[Tomovich]

01= regular FFL
07= manufacturer's FFL (I used to have one)

The minute you bend the Tapco flat to "proper" dimensions it has become a receiver. Selling it is another issue and legal thingy. :wink:

 

[ACMcom]

You cannot build a firearm with the intent to transfer it unless you have a manufacturer's license. You can transfer a firearm you built for your own use if you put the required markings on it. Be aware that if you sell a lot of home builds the alphabet boys may take that as evidence of building with the intent to sell.

 

[OldTroop]

Im just interested in reciever flats with the holes unbent. If its not considered a firearm at that point why do you need a manufacturers license.....seems like any one could make them and sell them??????????
Do you need a license to make ...say a slant brake???? It just seems the same to me.

 

[Tomovich]

It is perfectly legal in America, for now, to take that flat with holes in it and bend it up and make YOURSELF a weapon. No problemo. Go for it. After you own it for awhile (say a year or so??) you could even sell it to a buddy or family member for example. Start selling them to "people"?? In quantity? Sure. It would be easy and you could do it. It would also be easy to go into a bank and steal money at the point of a gun, or say kill your neighbor. Or how 'bout some raping and pillaging while we're at it? All easy to do. But all those things, like selling your homeade rifles for profit, ARE illegal. :goof:

Slanted muzzle brakes?? Make a million of 'em.........no laws about making those.

 

[OldTroop]

It is perfectly legal in America, for now, to take that flat with holes in it and bend it up and make YOURSELF a weapon. No problemo. Go for it. After you own it for awhile (say a year or so??) you could even sell it to a buddy or family member for example. Start selling them to "people"?? In quantity? Sure. It would be easy and you could do it. It would also be easy to go into a bank and steal money at the point of a gun, or say kill your neighbor. Or how 'bout some raping and pillaging while we're at it? All easy to do. But all those things, like selling your homeade rifles for profit, ARE illegal. :goof:

Slanted muzzle brakes?? Make a million of 'em.........no laws about making those.

Raping and pillaging and robbing banks....???????? Come on now. I know what the rules are pertaining to selling home made guns.....A reciever flat is not considered a firearm so whats the problem. I cant figure out why you would need a manf. license to make a flat?????????? For what I have in mind the person already has a manufactureres license but why would you need it?????? Im working on a deal for 1.5mm reciever flats fully heat treated and with the correct demenisions. Now its not considered a firearm so whats the hangup????? Ive got it all covered what ever I need. Im just tying to figure out the legaleties of it all. As I see it.....which may be wrong.....a flat is no different than a slant brake or pistol grip. As I know it flats are usually not marked are they??????? I know when its bent it changes the whole deal...now you have a firearm.

 

[Tomovich]

SURELY you understand I was exagerating to make a point?

I think (I may be wrong) that your question has been answered already SEVERAL times in the posts above. Hence the touch of sarcasm.

1) A flat with holes is a paperweight.
2) If you bend it you now have a federally controlled product (a weapon receiver/frame) that you CAN own and is legal.
3) Assembling that into a rifle is again, no problem, go for it.
4) If you bend up one or a few even for your own use, no manufactiurer's license is needed. Build away and have fun shooting.
5) If after owning and using one or more of these weapons for a period of time you decide to sell one you may as long as it has proper (legal) markings on the receiver.
6) If you start doing this frequently, in quantity, selling them for a profit, you need to get a 07 FFL license and need to report your earnings to the IRS and weapons manufactured to the ATF. The key word here is quantity and profit I believe.

You do not need to get a manufacturer's license to build up a couple of flats. And definitely not for a slant brake.............

I could be wrong but I think that about covers it...........at least I hope so :wink:

 

[Tomovich]

Cool.............100 posts. :wink:

 

[OldTroop]

Thats my point...until its bent its a paper wieght. So why would you need a license to make a paper wieght?????????????? The question hasnt been answered as far as I can see. Im not talking about making guns...Im talking about making flats for resale. Does a flat need to be serial numbered????? Does it need a manufactures name on it????????? And finally why would you need a license to make them if there not a firearm???? You keep mentioning the making of home made guns....Im not making guns. I want to make one part thats a paper wiegt and could even be sold as such. Im not trying to be hard headed.......I just want some answers without writing the BATF. I hoped someone could answer I thought a pretty easy question but I think it got off line with the making of guns instead of one part.

 

[Tomovich]

Making flats? You never actually asked that question per se. To make a flat you need no license, no stamping, no words, no numbers, no nothing. All the "legal stuff" starts after you bend it up. A flat is a paperweight (said long ago) and therefore, in itself, needs "no nothing" to make.

 

[OldTroop]

Making flats? You never actually asked that question per se. To make a flat you need no license, no stamping, no words, no numbers, no nothing. All the "legal stuff" starts after you bend it up. A flat is a paperweight (said long ago) and therefore, in itself, needs "no nothing" to make.

Thanks, that is what I was thinking. I may be able to have qaulity fully hardened flats made with the correct demensions all cnc punched. But leave them flat to dodge all the BS. I know theres a market for a qaulity receiver with no problems. They would be 1.6mm or 1.5mm, not sure yet.
Something im working on.

 

[ACMcom]

Tomovich, whether you make a profit is irrelevent. The word used in the law is transfer, not sell, so you can't make a firearm with the intent to give it away for free. You have to intend to use it yourself at the time you make it.

 

[Speedfreak]

flats

I don't think that you'll have much luck bending a tempered flat...
This is why they are normalized, and have to be heated, quenched and tempered afterwards.

 

[Tomovich]

Tomovich, whether you make a profit is irrelevent. The word used in the law is transfer, not sell, so you can't make a firearm with the intent to give it away for free. You have to intend to use it yourself at the time you make it.

:smile: I totally know and understand that. But since there are no psychics working for ATF (they think they are probably) that can tell what's in your head, notice I made a point of suggesting keeping it for a year or so before selling which would suggest the intent was never to "engage in the business".

Everything's cool................ :goof: