I can't really get in to them. I like the short overall length, but mag change's seem awkward. I kind of like the Tavor though. But for 2K without sight's my 6920 would have an Aimpoint PRO, weapon light and a quality sling.
I like them. I found them very interesting, but didn't want to spend big money on an AUG and all the conversions looked like junk, so I bought a Bushmaster M17S to tryout the genre. I ended up liking bullpups a great deal. The Bushmaster was an unfinnished work. It ran OK, but not ready for prime-time. The cottage industry of people doing upgrades shows that. Not being able to service the gas system without detail stripping was poor design. The trigger was crap, but it still shot quite well actually. The Bushmaster could have been a big winner if they had just done some work on it.
The price of a good bullpup is the big drawback to any of them right now. Your analogy of the 6920 is spot on. That package is hard to beat from a practical, logistic, training, and usability point of view.
Mag changes on a bullpup can vary depending on design. Ones with a paddle release are actually the fastest. Bullpup mag changes take longer, but it's not really all that much difference, and I can't help but lump that "defect" in with the other internet defects that seem to crop up with all guns. If it wasn't for the internet, I wouldn't know how crappy my Sigs were because of the high bore axis, or how big a POS my M&P's are because of the trigger reset.
Bullpup mag changes are very different, and you need to do them differently and changing that requires some effort and time in training. The difference in procedure seems to be the thing people have trouble with. A Royal Marine showed me how they change mags on the L85 and it wasn't all that slow. Slower than an AR, but it seemed like it would only matter to people in competition or in classes that stressed gamesmanship. If you practice enough, the mag change shouldn't be any more issue in real life any more than it is on an AK. Which is to say it really isn't an issue in real life. I tis different though, and that may be an issue.
Either way, I like bullpups personally. They just cost too much.
Ross, you're right, cost is the big mitigating factor. I like the Tavor because I have a thing for Izzy weapon's. If I could buy one with at least basic sight's for the cost of a 6920, I would seriously consider it.
The whole thing about mag changes being slower is old internet legend that has been well disproven. I run my AUG in matches where there are usually 40 guys, and 37 of them run AR's in various configurations. I always place in the top 5, and all it took was *practicing* mag changes to be as fast or faster than anyone with an AR.
You are swinging your arm up to grab the mag and press the release. The only difference is instead of placing your offhand in front of your strong hand, you are placing it behind. Unless you have some sort of physical impairment, there is no physiological reason it would be slower.
Anyhow, Ross really hit it on the head, the reason most people find bullpup mag changes slower (at first) is they are used to the "conventionaL' layout of an Ar-15 and similar guns, but with some practice there is no issue. Just a different manual of arms. If we had all grown up using bullpups, we would probably be complaining that reaching out to do a mag swap on ar AR-15 felt very unnatural.
I have an AUG A3. (I have a leash for it, but never have figured out how to 'run' it so I just shoot with it.)
As a lefty, most guns, as designed, are not optimum for me to use. The AR is one of the worst for lefty's (in original trim).
So I get to learn how to work around problems. An AUG is no worse than anything else in this regard. No reason mag changes can't be in the same class as an AR, Americans just don't have fifty years of AUG mag change muscle memory.
But I will take my forty two rounds of hate in each military issued, proven for decades- magazine versus a designed for twenty rounds but band-aided up over the years design.
I just got done getting fifteen more AUG mags for barely more money than PMags go for. Better mags for similar money, so the mag cost issue is a non starter at this point in time. Along with other goings on in the bullpup world, now is a good time to be in there.
I have two AUG A3's with Nato stocks. Didn't care for the AUG mags so went the NATO route.
Personally I think Styer needs to get with the program and update the damn AUG besides just the "rail". They need to make the NATO stock actually useable and not be so proud of their mags, make the barrels in 1/7 twist, and maybe even add some extra texturing to the stocks. The one thing that MSAR's had right was the upgraded stocks- which Steyr could learn from.
I'd like a Tavor, or an AUG, but the price just isn't realistic for me right now.
When I look at gun prices, I don't spend a lot of time justifying the cost of something for functionality because I always have that nagging thought in the back of my head "How in the world is it costing them more to make this little gun than an AR or an AK?"
Steyr and IWI both have the resources that they could lower the price to the point that Americans would buy nothing but bullpups, but they just don't see things that way I guess.
You would be very surprised how fast you can change the mag on a tavor when you learn the correct technique, it's a bit different than you might think or the internet "experts" will tell you but it can be achieved with a bolt close in about 1-1.5 seconds
Wow, that is the first time I have seen a red dot that far forward on an AUG A3, cool setup! And shooting with the trigger guard grip and the vertical grip folded, there is a rebel if I have ever seen one!
I am new here but I have a large gun collection and a pretty decent AK from china collection as well. But I am especially a bullpup fan boy. I have nearly every late model bullpup around. I still can't bring myself to buy an AUG even tho my MSAR is sweet an AUG is what it's trying to be like. As for triggers the word "atrocious" has been used a time or two but with the tavor it seems to be not as bad and probably the best bullpup trigger straight out of the box. I have both the IDF and an FDE tavor, trigger is the same in each.
By far the worst has got to be the FS2000 it's a plastic'y trigger through and through...the PS90 is a little better but not a lot. Same for the ZK-22 kit for the Ruger. My KVAR conversions in 5.45 and 7.62 are both horrible but usable.
You know what's also an OK bullpup trigger is that Juggernaut Tactical chassis for my Socom II not horrendous but not fantastic either...
I got my first bullpup last week, a Norinco T97NSR. It's got a few rather bizarre design features like the locations of the selector and the mag release, but I like it. Was hitting the 200 and 300m gongs at the range today with no issues at all. Runs like a champ on Wolf steel-cased .223. The $1k Cdn price makes it a pretty good value, IMO.